Hello my lovely listeners! I’m actually pretty excited to deliver this episode to you today as it’s one of the stories that people love for me to tell at events.

And it’s weird – I don’t actually tell it that much, even though it’s a pretty good one. I guess part of me is embarrassed that I did this. I dunno. I guess I’m just a very different person now and I like to leave that Sabrina in the past.

For those who have been listening to me for a while, first of all, I wanna say a huge THANK YOU for being a super loyal listener and putting up with my ramblings. I hope you’ve found the content useful and entertaining.

For those of you who have stumbled on this episode for the first time because the title was intriguing… WELCOME!

It absolutely is an intriguing title, so I will dive in and tell you why I indeed hired a man just to be a man.

But first, I probably should give you a bit of background, so you understand the run up of what happened.

I’ve been running my own businesses now since 2008, and it’s been a very interesting ride.

After selling my first business in 2013, I decided to set up an agency. In hindsight, this was pretty stupid.

I had been doing some freelancing prior to this – designing some websites, doing a lot of graphic design and also some digital marketing. I was getting a ton of freelance clients, so I thought, let’s set up an agency!! How bad can it be?

Errrrr

Well…

For those who run an agency, you know how bad it can be!!!

If I knew then what I know now, I would have stayed a freelancer and really worked on building my personal reputation online. Or “personal brand” as the cool kids say these days.

But let’s not dwell on the past.

I started an agency in 2013 and just sort of plodded along. The problem was, I was still charging low freelancer rates, but then having to pay for staff and massive overheads. Because this was back in the day when people actually came into offices. And people wanted fancy offices because that’s what agencies do!

It was fine for a few years – I just made teeny tiny profit margins. I was happy as long as I was able to pay my rent, travel a bit and afford to live in London.

I guess I was running what people call a lifestyle business. Now these are frowned upon a lot, but I actually don’t see a problem with them. I actually felt much happier with the business back then than I do now.

But around 2017, I wanted to do more. I wanted to grow the agency. So, I decided to get out there and start networking. I joined various networking groups, went to events every week and spent a lot of time getting to know new people.

This was full on. I was out 4-5 nights a week, working late hours and spending a lot of money! But this was considered “normal” back in the day.

Whether or not it’s heathy is a completely different conversation and I’ve definitely done a few episodes on burnout, mental health and hustle culture.

But here I was, putting myself out there.

I also spent a bit of time working on our own website’s SEO so that we’d be found in search engines. After all, we offered this service for our clients, so why not actually do this for ourselves?

We always ensured we made our own website and made it look nice as we thought it was important to genuinely showcase what we could do with our own website. I can’t tell you the number of websites I’ve designed and built for other agencies who then claim it’s their own.

I mean, I really shouldn’t have done when you think about it, but back then, to me, it was just another bit of work coming in.

I would always be the person these agencies would outsource to, paying me 1/10th of what they would get. I didn’t care, cos I was a pure hustler.

But we started getting tonnnnssssss of enquiries through our website, which was amazing. And which showed that my SEO skills really did work! Other agencies always told us that SEO is pointless and inbound is just not really something to expect. But most of our leads have always been inbound.

So anyway, it was around 2017 and I was getting lots of leads come in and they’d enquire about a new website design and build.

I’d be talking to them and the most common question I got was…

“Sorry, can I speak to your boss about this perhaps?”

This used to really throw me because obviously I was the boss and I owned the company. And also, “Can I speak to your manager” was usually the line people said when they wanted to complain!

So, I’d ask why and they’d say: “Well, surely there’s someone there better suited to understanding web design?” So, I’d be like “Errm, well I’m a website designer and have been for several years.”

So they’d grow more frustrated and say “OK but isn’t there a guy in charge somewhere I could speak to?”

And I’d be like what on earth? They’d explain that it’s because they think the guy would understand them more and be able to make better suggestions.

I used to get really upset and really insist on proving that I knew what I was talking about. But what I didn’t realise at the time was that these people were never going to respect me, no matter how much I ‘proved’ it to them.

If they judged me purely by my gender, then they’re the ones with the issues.

But this used to be even more brutal when I did things in person. I’d go somewhere and they’d ask what I did and when I say I ran an agency, they’d say “What do you mean run an agency? Like are you the office manager?” I’m like no….. I own the agency – I’m the founder.

They’d look at me really confused and move on. Sometimes I’d hear them talk about me and say “That woman there tried to tell me she runs an agency!” and then they’d have a laugh about it with their friends.

It was honestly so bizarre.

Back then, we also did way less branding and marketing. We only really focused on designing and building custom WordPress builds and only offered branding and marketing to those who needed this as well.

So, we were very much a WordPress agency. And so, there weren’t many female-owned website agencies out there.

And understandably so!!! Because we were treated like sh*t!!!!

The comments I’d get like “Oh aren’t you more suited to social media?” or “Oh I guess you just use templates and change the pictures then?” It was so tiring.

I was going to networking event after networking event, but I wouldn’t actually land any business at all because people would take one look at me and assume I have no idea what I’m talking about.

And back then, I was suuuuuper shy. You wouldn’t think it after listening to me call bullsh*t on so many people, but I really was.

In fact, I’m still quite shy now. I’m a big ambivert, so I actually hate networking events and often shy away in the corner and hide.

BUT, the difference is, nowadays, I’m not gonna take shit from someone who judges me like that or puts me down.

However, back then, my thought process was like “Oh, they don’t think I know what I’m talking about or I’m good at what I do”. Therefore, I will show them that I am and I will win their business and feel proud about that!

So I’d go above and beyond to impress these people. I’d even reduce my prices just so I could win them over – yup, I’d do everything I was not supposed to do. But I was young and naïve.

Until one day I got really fed up of constant sexist and racist remarks I would get. I’d turn up to meetings and I wouldn’t even get let into their office buildings. This happened regularly.

I just couldn’t deal with it anymore.

So, I decided to hire someone else to do my sales for me. Even though, as a small business owner, you’re very much the face of the company.

But one day, a male model was telling me that they’d love to work in sales and they thought my agency was cool.

I thought hmmmm this could be a great opportunity for both of us. I looked at him and thought he fit the ideal criteria perfectly – he was white and male.

He had ZERO experience working in an agency. He knew diddly squat about websites, branding or marketing. However, he was really willing to learn. He actually worked hard and practiced what to say with me a lot.

I let him answer the phones and took him to networking events with me.

Ahhhh, it sickens me to tell you…. Although you probably already know what I’m going to say… he made more money than I ever did.

He was able to close deals without even talking about business.

He would just have a chat and have “bants” and they would love it.

We’d be at events and we’d speak to the same people and then discuss afterwards to feedback on their reactions.

I’d be having a conversation with someone and explain everything we did, describe our case studies, name drop big clients etc. then they’d ask how much we charge and they’d always say that we were super expensive.

Now, I did market research and we certainly were NOT expensive. We’ve always been at the low end of what we should be charging, but I’ve never been able to quote high prices!

My new Business Development Manager would say to the same people: “Ah yeah, we do websites and shit” and he’d quote double what I quote. They’d be like “Oh amazing – that sounds good. Let’s book in a meeting next week.”

It was honestly ludicrous. There were times when I’d be talking and people would say, who is this bird? And he’d say “Ah she’s just my secretary”. And they’d go off and have a bit of a laugh about it.

Here’s where I’m disgusted with myself – at first, this stuff would really upset me. The disrespect from everyone involved really. I’d feel like the lowest of the low. But then I’d think – well, at least I’m getting double what I would have been getting, and they deserve that cos they’re knobs.

But then I’d quickly realise – why on EARTH would I even want to work with these knobs anyway???

I’m doing business with men I full well KNOW do not respect me and have said completely misogynistic things to my face and behind my back. How gross am I?

I very quickly became truly disappointed with myself.

I think this is how we’ve transitioned to becoming the No Bullsh*t Agency, and now, the full on N0BS brand. I was sick of all the bullsh*t in the industry – from agencies who ripped off their clients, but also from clients who disrespected me as a business owner.

Just because it is a male-dominated industry and very very few people of colour are in it either, it doesn’t mean that I should be treated badly for it.

I learned to live without the business of those people and it helped me become really selective of our future clients.

Don’t get me wrong, there are sooooo many days where I kinda wish that we had a male BDM still, or that we had more men on the team who were “lads” so that they could deal with the misogynistic pricks. But I’m not going to ever hire people again purely for that role.

However, we have had to create email addresses under men’s names just to liaise with certain contractors who refuse to take feedback off the women in the team.

The difference in the way they talk to us versus these fake people is unbelievable.

For example, my creative manager would provide feedback on a website to the contract developer we were working with and she would start the feedback with: “Please could you action the following changes…”

He’d reply with: “I could, but you can also do it yourself.”

It was honestly soooooo rude.

So, we’d create an email address from a guy and send the exact same email and we’d get the response:

“Sure man, that’s no problem. I’ll get right on that.”

It’s honestly so vile.

And I STILL get it now with contractors. Especially overseas. They will act super respectful when they think I’m a guy – they’d be like “hey bro… here’s the work etc”.

And then when they find out it’s me, the tone completely changes and they no longer want to work with us.

It’s 2024 and I would have hoped that things have gotten a lot better, but sometimes it feels as though it’s gotten worse.

With all the talk about diversity and inclusion, there are many men who feel hard done by and will claim that anything I achieve is only because of tokenism or because people are “woke”.

I don’t know if this attitude will ever change, but I’m really glad that I’ve come such a long way since that time in 2017-2018.

I know that there are still lots of people who don’t think I’m any good at what I do, nor do they think I deserve anything I’ve achieved. Many think that I’m too opinionated and I am crass because I say bullsh*t and I disagree with people online.

I’m proud to now have the confidence to stand up for what I believe in and I hope to see even more growth in a few years when I look back at myself now.

So, to anyone else who’s felt like they’ve tried to conform to fit in, or that they can’t speak out… you will have the strength to do it someday.

To many, they think I was born like this – with the courage to just tell people what I think. I was terrified once upon a time.

So, I get it.

Keep building up that strength, but please do always do your best to try and stay as true to who you are as possible.

I hope this story has helped you somehow and until next week, keep sniffing out the bullsh*t!