Sabrina Chevannes: Hi everyone, and welcome to this week’s episode of No Bullshit Talks.

I am super excited to have on the show today, Christine Handy.

Christine Handy: Welcome. So happy to be here. I can’t wait to talk about no bullshit.

Sabrina Chevannes: I know, and I feel like it’s gonna be so difficult to introduce you because you’ve done literally everything.

You have had a modeling career from the age of 11, your TV, radio, podcast, guest speaker, best-selling author. Like, there’s a million things that you do, right?

So I want to ask you, say someone said to you, “Christine, what do you do?” How would you actually answer that question? Because I think there’s a whole bunch of stuff that you do.

Christine Handy: There’s a long list of things I do, but they all relate to altruism, which is serving.

And so, if it’s my book, it’s a fictional depiction of my life. Why did I write it? To help other women.

If it’s the movie that’s coming out about my book, why do I want it out there? Because I want to help other women.

If it’s the nonprofit work that I do, I’m on the board of two nonprofits, it’s to help people. That’s altruism.

If it’s motivational speaking, again, it’s all about serving.

And if you can figure out a way to make an income while doing humanity work, there’s no greater privilege.

So all the things I do, including I go to Harvard right now, I’m getting my master’s degree, and there’s two reasons that I did that.

One, I had terrible chemo brain after I was diagnosed with cancer and went through a massive amount of chemo.

And my cognitive school skills, and my communicative skills, and my long-term memory skills, and my social skills, all of my skills were dampened because of that and hindered.

And so I decided that I would go back to school to work on those skills, and I decided to get my master’s degree, and I applied to Harvard.

And so, that’s originally why I went there.

But I also am in the program of Literature and Creative Writing, which means that I can write better.

So basically, from the moment I wake up to the moment I sleep, I have the privilege of serving.

Sabrina Chevannes: That’s so nice to hear.

Like, I feel like that was one of the most selfless, amazing bios I’ve ever heard.

It’s like you do all these great things that actually do for other people, which is so rare.

And I think that it’s the opposite of what a lot of people are doing at the moment. Everyone seems to do something for themselves.

And you know what’s ironic? One of the most popular questions I get on this podcast all the time is either,

Sabrina Chevannes: So why are you doing this podcast? What does it do for you? And all that kind of stuff.

And actually, the reason why I did it is because I thought it was great to get conversations out there.

And actually, I was talking to so many people. I love to network. I love to just meet people.

And, you know, I’d just have a conversation with someone and it’s great. Like, even before we were chatting, we weren’t hitting record, but we were having a great chat, right?

And we say, imagine if this was out there. That’s still great material.

And that’s why I felt that every conversation I had, I was like, this is such an interesting conversation.

Like, they have so much to give and, you know, we were just bouncing great stuff off each other.

I was like, “Oh, if only people could hear this and learn from what we just said.”

Like, I wish that I knew that stuff several years ago in my business journey, and that would’ve been so beneficial to me.

So then people just say, “When did you start your YouTube channel and podcast?” And it took me years to do it.

But that’s why I’m doing it, so that I could actually have those conversations again, but actually put it out there so that we can learn from it.

And that’s the reason why I decided to do it.

So it’s so nice to hear because so many people, like I said, they only think about it from their perspective.

And you’re doing all these great things, and it’s for the people, which is amazing.

Christine Handy: Well, self-indulgence didn’t get me very far in my life, and being selfless has got me great places.

And what I mean by that, it’s a privilege to serve.

It’s heartwarming. It gets me through the day in a peaceful, more gentle way to live my life.

And when I was very self-serving and did a lot of interesting things, and basically lived my life according to my external value or materialism or what society thought of me, I was very depleted and felt very lonely for many, many years.

And I couldn’t figure it out.

And finally, when I was pushed to the wall and had multiple illnesses, including breast cancer and chemotherapy and things like that, I finally figured out I was just doing it wrong.

Self-indulgence was paralyzing me, but serving was unparalyzing, right?

It was giving out and giving hope, which in turn gave me hope.

So, it’s a little bit selfish in a way because it does fuel me, right?

Sabrina Chevannes: Absolutely.

I guess every time you do something good, it does create that great feeling.

There’s that whole thing of the unselfish deed, that there isn’t such a thing as that. I get that to some extent for sure.

But I mean, what you said is kind of crazy because there are so many people out there talking about looks and all that, and people have got to stop being so shallow.

This is obviously something that parents try to teach children as a premise, and you’ve lived this.

And it’s sad to take something so horrible and traumatic that you went through before kind of seeing that.

But I kind of want to cycle back before we start talking about that other stuff because it’s gonna make me emotional talking about that stuff.

Because I know what you went through was really difficult.

So I’m going to start back when you worked at GE.

You were a model at the age of 11. Like, this sounds to the uneducated, not uneducated in terms of science, but unaware in that industry, this sounds like the ideal life and dream for any girl, right?

I’m sitting in a walk-in wardrobe having this conversation. Fashion is such a huge passion of mine.

Like, being signed as a model at the age of 11, that sounds like a super glamorous lifestyle.

It sounds like you were just draped in clothes, makeup, fun, traveling, photo shoots. It sounds like the absolute ideal thing.

But I know that I’ve got a couple of friends who are models, and the reality is not that glamorous.

I mean, she suffered a lot of eating disorders. She had a lot of bullying and low self-esteem issues, even though she was drop-dead gorgeous.

But somehow in that industry, they still make you feel otherwise.

And so, from when you started at such a young age, and such a difficult age too, to have people tell you that.

Like, for an 11-year-old girl, what was that emotional roller coaster?

Like, “Oh my God, I’m a model.”

What was the reality to you? I want to hear that.

Christine Handy: Well, that’s a good question.

I loved my job. I still model, and now my modeling looks very different, but I love it.

First of all, I loved to work. And when I look back at my life, I just was in a hurry to live, even at that young age.

And so, yes, of course it brought a lot of difficulty, and it taught me a lot of bad traits.

For instance, it was a very transactional world, so I learned that life, and specifically the modeling industry, was, “If you do this for me, I’ll do this for you.”

And I just thought that’s how everybody lived their life.

And so I modeled that for a long time. I clung to that, and that was part of my demise, right? Because it was very transactional.

And because I learned that for so long, it was stamped in my brain that when I was diagnosed with cancer and I lost my external beauty, I thought I had no value.

I was 41 years old and believed that I had no worth in this world because my external value was being taken away.

And that’s not just on the modeling industry. That’s on our culture and society, and it’s also 100% on me and a self-esteem issue.

But the modeling industry, like I said, is very transactional.

But at a young age, you don’t totally see that. But I grew up in the industry, right?

So by 15, I had a massive eating disorder because it was a constant state of comparison, and it was a constant state of rejection.

Because if you’re sent out on a week-to-week basis five times to 25 different clients, or two times, or three times, that was a measure, right?

How many times am I going out to meet clients? Number two measure was, well, if I’m not getting them, who is?

And so then you start comparing yourself to other people.

So it’s judgment, it’s comparison, it’s all these things that we’re trying to take away from our lives, and it’s negating my self-esteem.

And so for years and years and years, I couldn’t figure out why I didn’t have very high self-esteem.

Listen, I was a model. I was signed with multiple agencies, right?

I was attractive. I was getting attention, but I felt really bad about myself.

And it was all these other things that were going on that I just didn’t even recognize at the time.

Sabrina Chevannes: I can’t believe that someone who landed a modeling career at the age of 11, you know, had this glamorous lifestyle, obviously a stunning girl growing up and doing all this stuff, still had self-esteem issues.

Like, this is why people don’t get what’s actually going on inside people.

And people judge people purely from their looks and have no idea what’s going on inside someone.

And I mean, so you’re 15, you’re going through self-esteem issues, you have an eating disorder.

So again, I want to touch on that because obviously that’s a really difficult topic for a lot of young girls. Well, young girls and boys and everyone.

You know, they all relate to each other, obviously.

Do you remember the exact moment that kind of made you feel that you didn’t work until you’re happy with yourself and you felt that you needed to kind of starve yourself or whatever?

Do you remember that moment?

Christine Handy: I feel like my self-esteem started to get chipped away at a young age, and I didn’t understand it, right?

And since this is the No Bullshit podcast, you know, especially back then. Now I’m 51 years old, so this is a long time ago.

Women were 100% objectified. Like, that happened all the time, but it was normal, and I didn’t see what was wrong with it at the time.

And it felt obviously very uncomfortable.

Even if I was on a modeling shoot and a photographer would be inappropriate with me, and I never was physically or sexually assaulted in any way, ever, ever.

But if he made a comment that was inappropriate, I would never have said anything about it.

I would just internalize it because I was taught to respect authority. He was the authority.

I was taught to respect authority in the medical field, right? Doctors and that their voice was larger than mine.

We need to stop that. I hope that doesn’t continue. I hope that doesn’t still go on.

I hope young people are learning something different.

But those types of things, they shred your self-esteem, and you don’t even recognize it at the time.

And so, we have to go back and we have to do some work.

We have to put this into the school systems. We have to put this into young people’s lives because if they don’t recognize it, they can’t stop it, right?

Sabrina Chevannes: And what would you say, you know, there’s young teenage girls out there listening to this somehow, or parents of young teenage girls who they feel are going through this.

Because I don’t know if your parents had any idea that you were going through all this and how they handled it.

But, you know, I feel like a lot of parents don’t know. And I feel like a lot of teenage girls wouldn’t tell their parents this sort of stuff.

But what advice would you give them, both the parents and the girls themselves?

Christine Handy: Well, for me, it was a control issue.

Like, I felt so out of control. I was flat. I mean, like above water trying to float, right?

When I was just under so much, and I didn’t even realize I was under so much.

I wanted to work, I had goals, and in the meantime you’re going through puberty and you’re changing, and my breasts were getting bigger and I wasn’t fitting in the clothes as well.

And I was just growing up and getting bigger.

And so I was starving that because I didn’t want my breasts to get bigger.

I wanted to be, you know, like what’s-her-name, the supermodel Twiggy, right?

Sabrina Chevannes: Okay, yeah.

Christine Handy: From the ’70s.

Like, that’s who I adored. And I was like, “Oh, I want to look like Twiggy from the ’70s.”

My breasts were getting bigger and I was like, “Push them down,” right?

And that’s terrible. That’s a terrible feeling.

But I didn’t really recognize it clearly at the time.

But I also was just trying to control the out-of-control, right?

I think a lot of eating disorders, and I can only speak about mine, I felt out of control in life, in the world, and uncertain about myself.

And so I was trying to control what I was eating, right?

What I knew I could control was what I was putting in my mouth.

And so that’s really why I think I started my eating disorder.

Christine Handy: It went on for a long time.

I was finally hospitalized at 21.

And the hospital, you know, I was completely healed when I came out, which was great.

But I had the ability to go into a hospital and get over it. Many people don’t.

Sabrina Chevannes: Why not? What’s holding them back? Why do many people not have that option?

Christine Handy: I don’t think people have the financial ability to do it.

I don’t know that people have the access.

I oftentimes don’t think that people have a lot of support around it.

And I think education, talking about it, listening to it, I think that’s the first step.

But I think, bringing up a question that you already asked me, when you’re talking to people that have it, or young women that have it, or the parents, I think it should be an open conversation.

So it’s not an easy fix. It’s not.

I don’t think anybody is just going to go, “Okay, tomorrow I’m gonna start eating normally.”

You have to relearn how to eat.

Christine Handy: You have to really work on your self-esteem, and self-esteem work is a massive lifelong process.

I still work on my self-esteem. I’m 51 years old. It’s that critical.

When we have low self-esteem and we’re trying to control an uncontrolled situation, then so many things can push us over, right?

And so if we’re working on our self-esteem and working on self-love, and we’re trying to figure out who we are and where we fit in this world, that’s part of self-esteem work.

Then we’re not solely controlled by what society thinks of us or the external value or the materialism or what bag we’re carrying or what address we have, right?

Because it’s starting to figure out who you are inside and leaning into that. That’s more secure. That’s where we need to lean into.

Sabrina Chevannes: I want to ask what you think about social media in general when it comes to this.

Because when you’re talking about this, I’ve not been a model. I’ve never been in that industry. I don’t know what it’s like, but I can only imagine what it’s like.

And I’ve been on loads of photo shoots, which are totally different. It’s not my career to do it. It’s just been for different things, and they’ve been exciting.

Like, you know, being the last to go, there’s issues, but still. They make you, when you’re there, all that spotlight’s on you and they’re like, “Right, don’t do that face.”

That’s my face. Like, that’s just my face.

And they’re like, “Do this, do that.”

And I’m consistently like, you know, they’ll be like, “You need more makeup on her.”

And my only thought about you is, like, little things chip away at you. I get it.

But when you’re talking about it as a career, I can’t even imagine that.

But every time you’re talking about stuff about it, it makes me think of social media because everything you just mentioned about that constant validation that you need, and the comments, that’s what social media is these days.

Instead of going out modeling in the normal way, people will put a picture on Instagram because they’re actually trying to find a modeling contract. That’s actually what a lot of people do.

Or they’ll try to be influencers. They’ll put a picture on Instagram, but it’s like they love you.

So many filters, so many apps now because they’re not happy with the way they look.

And they’re just sitting there refreshing, waiting to see how many likes they get, and they’re comparing it to their friends, comparing how many likes their friends get.

And then their friends post a picture and they’ve got more likes, or they’ve got a picture with the new Prada handbag, and it’s like, “Oh my God, now I need to go get a Prada handbag.”

And it’s like this whole kind of competitive pressure. It’s horrible, right?

And I just think that I see this so much in teenage girls already.

Does that resonate with you in the same sense as what you went through in your modeling career?

Christine Handy: I mean, I could talk about this forever.

I think social media can have a very good place in this world.

I think it is critical who you follow. For example, if you’re following people that just put out their highlight reel, you cannot follow them because people will compare themselves to that life.

It’s not real. It’s fake.

And all of us have a responsibility in the social media world because there are people that are comparing themselves to all of us.

We have a responsibility to show not just the highlight reel. That’s the bottom line.

I think that young people who are dependent on likes and comments, they don’t have self-esteem.

And I can speak about this all day long because I didn’t have self-esteem.

It’s that critical to work on your self-esteem, to look at who you follow, to listen to how you’re talking to yourself.

If you feel like you’re unworthy because you don’t have as many likes as your friend, that’s immediately a red flag that you have to work on your self-esteem.

Likes and comments mean nothing.

If it can be taken away, don’t meditate on that.

Meaning, like, I have rebuilt my life not on those types of things, which I call sand.

If you can sink in it, which is likes, comments, social media, external beauty, then that’s called sinking sand, and you’ll sink fast if it’s taken away.

But if you meditate and you put your life and all your faith and your time on things that are life-giving and life-inspiring.

Like, I have faith in God. I have faith in God. That serves me.

I don’t need the applause from society.

I have faith in myself that I’m going to wake up every day and do something for humankind.

I don’t care if I get likes or comments, but that’s self-esteem work. It takes a lot of practice.

And you have to care about what you say to yourself.

You have to care enough about what other people are saying to you.

And you have to recognize the negative thoughts and correct them.

It’s not easy. It takes a lifetime of practice.

But our decisions, we make our decisions based on our self-esteem, right? Every decision we make is based on our self-esteem.

So, like, for you, for instance, if you didn’t have strong self-esteem, you wouldn’t start a podcast, right?

Why? Because you’d feel insecure. You’d go, “Oh, I can’t do this.”

Sabrina Chevannes: It’s that voice.

Christine Handy: Like, “What if people don’t like me?” Right?

You gotta get rid of those voices. They are not healthy. They’re not healing. They’re not going to sustain you.

But if you change those thoughts to, “I’m going to put it out there whether I fail or not because I know that what I’m doing is valuable, and if people don’t accept it, who cares?”

That’s different self-talk.

And then you have to go one step further and say to yourself, “Okay, what am I listening to? What podcasts am I listening to? What am I looking at on TV? What am I watching?”

Am I watching E! News and comparing myself to these celebrities that are constantly using filters?

If you are, that’s a red flag.

But if you’re putting on documentaries and things that you can learn from and be inspired by, that’s self-care. That’s self-love.

And if you are really fixated on how many likes and comments you have, you need to immediately go start working on self-esteem. Immediately.

Sabrina Chevannes: Stop everything I said.

But I feel like, you know, I can say this to me, I’m in my thirties, but it took me a long time to get here, right?

I wasn’t like this. I mean, I still have self-esteem issues every now and then while I’m still struggling.

I guess I recorded a few episodes like a year ago, and I still didn’t release it because I was like, “No, I’m not gonna release it. Who’s going to listen to this?”

You know, those typical sorts of things.

And I definitely post stuff on Instagram and think, “Oh my God.”

And I didn’t even realize people edited stuff until a few years ago. I was like, “People actually do that?”

And it’s tougher for girls on Instagram. There’s so much effort. I just didn’t understand people did it either.

But I know it’s got worse because of all these apps. Before, you had to have some pretty sharp skills.

Now there’s just so many apps, you can just do it in one click of a button, and it’s quite scary.

But I just think that, you know, it’s fine saying this as someone like myself who’s kind of lived their life and I’ve been a student, I’ve done that whole thing, and it’s not been as bad.

But I feel like if you spoke to me 15 years ago, I would’ve been like, “Yeah, whatever.”

Like, “If I don’t have as many likes as my friend, then I’m not gonna get invited to that party.”

Come on, that’s what I think the reaction would be because that’s what it’s based upon. It’s popularity.

And it’s like when my parents used to tell me about things. I used to come home like, “I need this because everyone at school has this.”

Apparently that’s what I used to say, “Everyone at school has this thing.”

And they’d eventually cave in on a couple of things and ask me which one I actually wanted. Like, “You can have this, but you can’t have this.”

And then I’d find out that only one or two people in the whole school had it.

But I just had to have it because someone else had it.

And I feel like as a teenager, that’s what you do. You base things on really stupid things.

But you’re a teenager, and it’s so real to you as a teenager.

Like, it feels like it’s the end of the world when someone breaks up with you or something about, you know.

You see teenagers break up, and it feels like literally the end of the world.

But then you see them a year later, and they’ve forgotten who that person even existed.

Like, it can’t have been that real. But at the time, it feels really real.

So I feel like, you know, it’s easy for me to comprehend that vanity metrics are just that.

They don’t mean anything.

What people don’t realize is that 45% of Instagram are bots. So you’re not even getting likes from real people.

Yeah. Big celebrity profiles, like actions, even like 35% of their followers are fake.

I did not know that.

Yeah, and that shows you how ridiculous the power of social media is.

Even then, people are putting these people on a pedestal like, “Oh my God, Kylie Jenner,” blah, blah.

A third of her profile is fake. Like, they’re all bots.

And I’ve seen so many influencers get brand deals, for example, and massively fail to sell anything to their followers because people are following them for the wrong reasons.

Like, lots of attractive women are being followed by pervy men because they just want to see their pictures.

They’ll be like, “Yeah, she’s hot,” but that’s all they’ll do.

And if she’s then advertising some sort of product or something, are those pervy men ever gonna care what she says?

No. The majority of them aren’t.

So that’s already a good chunk of your audience. So you’re talking to a very small audience.

This is what people don’t realize, so it’s actually ridiculous.

But I get that.

And this is also my job, and I’m much more mature than I was back then.

But even if I take myself at the same level of intelligence, 15 years ago I was way less mature.

I totally would’ve thought, “Whatever you’re saying, you need to get out of that.”

And I’d be like, “She doesn’t understand what she’s talking about. She’s just old.”

That’s what I would’ve said.

People just don’t get how important this stuff is.

And that’s why I’m struggling because I feel like if I had Instagram when I was a teenager, I think it would’ve been really bad.

And I think these kids now have it way worse.

How do we get through to those people?

Because I feel like what you’re saying to me now gets through to me, and I get it.

But I don’t think you could say the same thing to a 15-year-old girl and she’d think, “Right, you’re right. Those likes don’t mean anything. It is just shallow.”

I don’t think they would react like that. They wouldn’t get it.

So how can we get through to these teenage girls?

I just can’t imagine suddenly getting that and understanding it.

Christine Handy: Well, I’m not a psychologist, but I feel like we have to.

Because if you look at the suicide rates now, they’ve quadrupled in the last couple years, right?

And so that matters, especially because of social media.

I’m not blaming it all on social media, but I’m kind of blaming this because we’re not helping the situation, right?

By applauding likes, by applauding comments.

“If you have so many, then you get this,” right? It’s transactional.

It’s the same thing as the modeling industry.

And if we are promoting that on some level, we need the parents, or we need the mentors, or we need the podcasts who are saying to people, “Remember, it starts from within. It starts from self-talk.”

And if you can see these red flags in your life, stop. Pay attention before it gets too bad.

That would be my best advice.

Sabrina Chevannes: I really wish that this was taught at school.

I feel like it can be.

Christine Handy: It can be fully.

Sabrina Chevannes: But it’s not.

I think that’s why our big thing about emotions.

I feel like there are a lot of things taught at school which are not necessarily relevant. We never use them.

But there are certain things which should be taught at school, like self-esteem, absolutely. Staying safe and using social media and all that stuff, the pros and cons of it, actual real-life stuff that people go and use.

And I feel like that stuff should be taught at school.

Christine Handy: I think it’s way more important.

Sabrina Chevannes: Than learning about some kind of history or geography, boring rocks and stuff.

Okay, so let’s get into the nitty-gritty because I feel like, you know, what you are probably most known for at the moment is all your work.

Sabrina Chevannes: You’re doing around breast cancer awareness, and obviously you got diagnosed with breast cancer, and that’s obviously not easy for anyone.

But I want to talk through that journey and how you got from, I guess, the moment you were diagnosed, what that felt like, to how you are now.

Like, I mean, if I didn’t know it, I would never have imagined.

First of all, you said you’re 51. I had no idea. You look at least 10 years younger. You look amazing.

Christine Handy: Doesn’t ever have plastic surgery.

Sabrina Chevannes: That’s incredible.

And, you know, you’re so positive and so uplifting and all this sort of stuff.

And so many people hear the C-word and they melt away. It’s the scariest word, I think, in the human language in a way.

And people hear it and their whole life falls apart, and you’re here as this hugely together woman, so positive.

I want to hear this journey because to me, it’s incredible.

So let’s start from the beginning.

Christine Handy: In the beginning, it was traumatic for me.

I felt total despair because, again, going back to self-esteem, I didn’t think I had any value in this world other than my modeling career and what I could bring to other people, right?

“If I can’t do anything for you, then you’re not going to love me.”

And so I knew that I was going to be very sick for a very long time because I needed 28 rounds of chemotherapy.

And so I needed to ask for help.

And because I did not have self-esteem, and because my pride was getting in the way, because I was taught as a woman that we can do anything.

We can care for everybody while we’re doing everything.

I was like, “Well, I’m not going to ask for help because I’m a tough, strong woman. I’m an independent woman.”

And that didn’t get me very far.

So I had to unveil all the pride and all the ego that I had built up for 41 years about, “Hear me roar. I am so strong.”

I had to unpack that and say, “Okay, I’m not that strong right now. I need help.”

And so once I was able to get rid of the pride and ego and ask for help, it went a little bit better.

But I was violently ill for 15 months.

And during that time, I looked at my life and I said to myself, “Well, regardless of whether you’re going to get through this or not, you may die of chemo. You may die of cancer. I don’t know.”

I cannot meditate on the outcome anymore.

Christine Handy: It was paralyzing me.

The fear of dying of cancer or the fear of dying of chemotherapy was paralyzing me from being a mother, from being a wife, from being a friend, and from being somebody that I wanted to be within my own head.

The fear was overcoming everything in my life, and I couldn’t stop it.

And so once I stopped and said, “Okay, we need to figure out a different way of thinking because this isn’t working.”

Then I would literally be laying on my bathroom floor, you know, throwing up from chemotherapy and going, “Okay, what do I need to do to feel better emotionally?”

Because emotionally, it was almost worse than physical.

And so I started to delve into my faith.

I started to figure out who was for me and who was against me.

Like, I started even in my own voice, like, “What things are you saying to yourself that aren’t for you?”

I was saying to myself, “I’m not worthy of love. I’m not worthy of great success. I’m not worthy of anything if I don’t have my beauty,” right?

And so I started to take those thoughts captive, and I started to change and replace them even though I didn’t feel like it.

But I knew that I couldn’t be paralyzed from my own fear and insecurity anymore.

And so I stopped meditating on the outcome, whether I was going to live or die. It didn’t matter anymore.

I was going to show courage every single day, one, to myself, also to my children and my friends and my family.

So once I started to do that, the fear just kind of washed away.

And then I started to gain momentum, right?

I had people show up for me.

And then I started to go, “Okay, well, they aren’t showing up for me because of my external beauty because I have none. They’re showing up for me because they care about me.”

So there must be something inside of me that people love.

So I started to tap into that, and I started to figure out, “Wait, there is some stuff that’s lovable in there. Let’s figure that out.”

And I started to learn about myself.

I started to ask myself questions.

“If I get through cancer, what do I want to do?”

Not what does everybody else want me to do. What do I want to do?

And I started to answer those questions.

And so by the time I was done with chemotherapy, I had basically 15 months of purgatory, terribleness, but quiet.

Not comfortable quiet, but quiet.

And I needed 15 months to figure out my self-esteem.

And once I was done with that, I was like the horse was out of the gate. I was off and running.

I was like, “Okay, I’m going to take all that I just learned about myself and all that I just learned about humanity, about showing up for each other, and I’m going to teach other people that.”

“I’m going to write the book. I’m gonna go back to school. I’m going to apply to Harvard.”

I would have never in a million years applied to an Ivy League school. I would’ve never had the confidence to do it.

And even if Harvard says no, I’m going to be okay with that because I had built back my life on faith and self-esteem.

I did not rebuild my life on materialism.

I did not rebuild my life on what people thought of me, which had paralyzed me for 41 years.

And so when I rebuilt my life, literally physically and emotionally, everything changed.

The decisions I made changed. The people in my life changed.

And I wanted to be with myself.

So it was like a massive shift, but it was so much work.

I don’t want any of your listeners to think this is easy stuff. It’s not easy stuff.

But I had to retrain my brain to think differently.

And I will never forget the feeling of being paralyzed by fear and the feeling of being hopeful because it was a choice.

Sabrina Chevannes: How important were those people in your life to get you through that?

Because I think as you progress through life, you know, like going back to the teenage you and modeling days, you’ll have loads of friends.

I’m sure partying or having a glamorous lifestyle.

But how many of them are actually still your friend now?

How many of them were actually true friends, or they were just party girls who wanted to call you when they wanted to have a good time?

You do filter out your friendship group as you get older. I feel like that’s just natural anyway.

But I think that you feel something like that even more when times get really hard. I think they filter themselves out.

Yeah, exactly, that’s what I mean.

I think that says a lot about people who stick through with you through that sort of thing.

Who were the ones that surprised you, or who were the ones that you couldn’t have done this without?

Christine Handy: Well, lucky for me, I picked women that stood by me for season after season, regardless if it was a happy season or a healthy season.

I picked women that were all in for all seasons of my life.

Because I said to them in the beginning, “This is going to be a long road. Are you in?”

And they were like, “We will never forsake you.”

And I didn’t really believe them at first, but ultimately, they never forsook me.

And then I was like, “Wow, they really are cheering me on.”

And then I thought, “Well, gosh, if they can cheer me on, I better cheer myself on.”

And now I live like that.

Like, I look at my life, I look at my social media, and I look at what I do, and I’m like, “I gotta be my biggest cheerleader.”

Why? Because if I don’t believe in myself, why would anybody else?

And then I cheer other people on.

Like, we have to cheer each other on like it’s confetti, like it’s your birthday every day.

Why? It’s a privilege to do that.

Like, why tear each other down?

There’s so much to go around. There’s ample opportunity, right?

There’s ample finances. There’s ample opportunities for all of us.

But if we have this mentality that we have to take from somebody else because we won’t have enough, that’s a self-esteem destroyer.

And you’re hurting yourself. Forget the other person, you’re hurting yourself because you’re really basically not believing in yourself that there’s enough to go around.

And so I fortunately picked the right people, and I know that some people don’t. But this is another message.

Christine Handy: Take inventory of who you’re surrounding yourself with.

And I know people talk about this all the time, but it’s so true.

If you list the most important people in your life on one hand, that will determine your future.

Listen to what they’re saying to you. Listen to the voices that they’re speaking into your life.

Are they giving you hope? Are they making you feel inferior, right? That’s critical.

Sabrina Chevannes: I think that what you’re saying about you picked women that would support you, I find it so fascinating that there are still so many women who bring down other women.

And you don’t see the girl-on-girl hate as much with men. I don’t get it.

I just don’t understand it.

I don’t understand that women already seen bias in so many different ways. There’s a gender gap in so many different ways, as we know, but that’s a whole other topic.

So if women are very disadvantaged in so many opportunities, why aren’t women supporting each other to get through this and work through this together?

Because surely there’s strength in numbers, and surely they could build each other up and create more opportunities for each other. It’d only be a good thing.

I don’t understand why there is so much bitchiness between women and why there’s such competitiveness.

And I feel like there isn’t the same with men.

I mean, there is obviously competitiveness. It’s a financial dog-eat-dog world, but in some ways it’s healthier the way they do it.

It might be a bit cutthroat, but at the end of the day they’re not necessarily backstabbing them. It’s like a fair fight.

I don’t know if you think the same, but I definitely feel that there is not enough support for women with each other.

Christine Handy: Well, I think, again, it goes back to their self-esteem, right?

If they don’t feel like there’s plenty to go around, or if they feel like they have to hoard.

Like, let’s use a stupid example. I have a really great hair colorist. She does a great job, right?

I have friends in my past life, meaning pre-cancer, who would say to me, “Oh, I have this great colorist, but I’m not going to give you her phone number.”

And I’d be like, “What?”

Sabrina Chevannes: That’s catty.

Christine Handy: That’s what it is. It’s competition, right?

It’s that mentality of, “If she gets to look as pretty as I do,” or whatever, then it takes away from me.

It’s a self-esteem issue.

And the other thing I really want to talk about is we have to let go of taking things personally.

Like, if somebody criticizes you on social media, or if you have haters, or if they negate what you’re trying to do, it really is their issue, not yours.

It has nothing to do with you. It has to do with their heart and their life and their insecurities.

And once you let go of that, life can be very peaceful because you let go of caring about what other people think at all in general.

And also about total strangers.

Like, don’t decimate your self-esteem because a stranger thinks that you’re not whatever, right?

Don’t give them that power. Keep your power.

Sabrina Chevannes: It’s funny you saying that because it’s so true.

And I remember so many times, I distinctly remember getting sucked into some kind of forum like 10 years ago or whatever.

And this guy would say something and I’d think, “This is just so wrong.”

And I’d get myself into a spiral. I’d be really annoyed.

And I wish I was mature enough then to hear what you just said.

But especially now it’s even worse on social media because they are strangers. They are total strangers.

Why do you care what total strangers think?

It sounds so stupid when you put it that way because I’ll think, “Oh my God, this person just commented on my post and said this. How dare he?”

But it does make you paranoid.

If you don’t have good self-esteem, it will start making you question things.

But you’re right. It is a complete stranger.

And most of the time it’s some loser with a bot profile who created that profile just to troll other people, just to piss them off and get a rise out of them.

I just think it’s crazy. But we all do it.

Well, not all of us. Okay, you don’t do it. You’re too together. You’re amazing.

Christine Handy: I don’t want to say that I’m together.

I’ll give you an example.

Two years ago, and my breast cancer was in 2012, I had beautiful implants put in, and I loved my implants.

Like, I had a love relationship with them. They didn’t move, they were perky, they were the perfect size, and I just really liked them.

But two years ago, in the beginning of COVID-19 when the whole world shut down, my implants decided they weren’t going to like me.

And so after three months of being in and out of the hospital, I finally had emergency surgery, and they had to excavate both chest cavities, and the implants were gone forever.

And now I have a concave chest.

And it took me several months to come to grips with it.

First of all, the pain was disgusting. It was so intense.

But also the emotional pain of fighting through cancer, fighting through breast cancer, getting my breasts taken away, then putting implants in and getting used to that, and then that going away too, that being taken away.

That was a whole new level, right?

And somebody on my social media, a guy, said, “Were you born a man or a woman?”

And it took me like three days to respond, and I shed some tears because it was so new and so fresh to me.

But here’s my takeaway.

When I finally responded to him, I could have responded out of anger, pride, malice, or compassion. That’s always a choice.

And so when I finally responded to him, I responded out of compassion.

I said, “Why did you ask me that question?”

And by that time he goes, “Oh, forget about it. It doesn’t matter.”

And the truth was, it didn’t matter.

It was my issue. I allowed him to upset me.

Who cares if the guy thought I was a man or a woman, right?

But it took me like three days of revisiting my self-esteem and working on my self-care until I finally was like, “Okay, I’m not going to react out of malice or pride. I’m going to react out of compassion.”

Why? Because that’s self-love and that’s self-care.

So we have that ability every single day when somebody trolls us, or somebody criticizes us, or calls us whatever, or isn’t supportive of what we’re doing.

We have an opportunity to respond out of pride, malice, or compassion. Love somebody through it because it really is their problem.

Sabrina Chevannes: So difficult though.

I feel like I don’t know how you really reply after three days.

That’s something that I’ve been practicing more.

It’s that when someone sends me an email that pisses me off, like I still get misogynistic messages.

So I’ll get emails from male clients saying stuff like, “Yes, love,” or “Hi dear,” very sarcastic and just wanting to get you to do something.

And where the email pisses me off, I don’t reply to it for 24 hours now. That’s what I do.

Because if I start typing an email, I’m angry typing.

And if I read it back after saving it in drafts and revisit it later, I think, “Oh my God, I was gonna send that.”

Because I was angry.

And obviously then you have time to reflect and realize, okay, he’s just an asshole. It’s not me.

Christine Handy: It is his issue.

But I’m not saying that things don’t happen, and I’m not saying that we can’t react.

But what you’re doing, that’s self-care.

By you saying to yourself, “I’m not going to react for 24 hours,” that’s self-care.

Because you don’t want to put yourself out there in that position because then the guy is going to react with you, and then it’s this banter.

I want to live a more graceful life. I want to live a more peaceful life.

The only way that I could do that is by reacting out of compassion.

I don’t always hit the mark. I don’t always do that.

But if I recognize this reaction is out of pride, this reaction is out of malice, this is out of compassion, then once you practice it, and it’s all day long, you know, I mean, it’s the littlest things, you still think of that.

And so I just have practiced it for a long time, and so it’s easier for me.

But it’s like self-care. It’s the same thing. You have to practice it or you won’t get it right.

And why do we do that, right?

Because we care enough about ourselves and we want to make the best decisions for ourselves.

So we gotta fight for that.

Sabrina Chevannes: Can I ask you, because obviously what you’ve been through is crazy, and I can’t even believe that after you’ve gone through all those battles, then you’ve lost your implants two years ago, right?

And you had to do this all over during a pandemic.

I can’t even put myself there.

Christine Handy: And alone.

Sabrina Chevannes: Yeah, alone.

Like, how are you still together?

I mean, how?

Because I don’t know. I obviously don’t have that much self-esteem to be able to do that, to look in the mirror and look at myself after going through all that and think, “I’m still beautiful. I’m still a woman.”

Because that’s obviously what he said.

Did that ever cross your mind? Like, “I am not a woman anymore?”

Christine Handy: I mean, I had some dark moments there. It would be impossible not to.

It’s like a freaking roller coaster trying to figure this out emotionally and physically.

Like I said, the pain was grotesque.

So I’m in massive physical pain, and I’m trying to just understand what I look like.

I couldn’t even go into my closet for several months because I didn’t want to try on my clothes that I had to give away or had to throw away because they would never fit me again. They would never look right.

Christine Handy: Again, I live in Miami. We’re in bathing suits all the time, right?

So it took me several months to wake up one day and say to myself, “Okay, you’ve used all the pain that you’ve gone through to help other people for years. You have to use this. Do not let it sink you.”

And so I went into my medicine cabinet and I took out an Ace bandage and I wrapped it around my chest.

And I was like, “I’m going to make bathing suits for people that look like me because I can’t find one.”

The bathing suits that I put on, they’re padded, and when you go in the water, that padding inverts, and so it looks ridiculous.

And so I was like, “There’s nothing for people like me, and there’s a ton of people like me out there, so I’m going to fix it.”

So I called up a couture bathing suit company out of Miami and I said, “Would you take a meeting with me?”

And they were like, “We love what you do. For sure.”

So I met with them and they said, “We’ll collaborate with you.”

So I’ve been working on a bathing suit line with them for two years.

That’s one. I decided that I needed to make sense out of the pain and help other people with it.

The next thing I did was call my modeling agency and I said, “Bummer. I now have a concave chest, but I’m going to work.”

And they kind of were like, “What? Really? Do you want to send us some pictures?”

And I was like, “Okay.”

So last September I went to New York and I said to my modeling agency, “I’m going to go meet as many brands as I can because I need to walk in New York Fashion Week.”

I’ve never been a runway model. I’ve always been a catalog model.

So I ran around New York last September in 2021.

And while all my friends were running around New York in Ubers and going to nice lunches, I was on the subway going to as many shows as I could talk my way into and talking to brands and saying to them, “I’ve been a model for 40 years. I want to walk back on the runway in February.”

“I want to show what this is because there are women that have no self-esteem. They feel so much shame. They don’t know who they are anymore, and we need to help them.”

So just recently in February in New York City, I walked in four shows, and the brands that used me put me in tight clothes so that you could see that I had no chest.

Let me tell you, it takes a lot of courage to show up like that.

But you can’t imagine how many lives that I’m changing.

And so I had to figure out in the depth of my pain that there had to be purpose in it, and I found a way.

And that’s just what we have to do or we’re never going to survive this thing called life.

Sabrina Chevannes: And you do it.

That one was basically the moment when I was like, “Who does that?”

There are very few people like you.

I’ve just heard you describe one of the most traumatic things that could ever happen to a woman ever, and you’ve just turned that into inspiring every other woman out there.

Like, that’s incredible.

I just can’t believe it. I don’t think I could ever do that.

I did think that if that happened to me, I feel like I would struggle.

And what you’ve just said is huge.

And you’re right though. Every woman listening to this is going to be in awe of what you’ve done and how you’ve handled it.

And I know there must be other people out there with breast cancer who think the same thing.

And like you were saying about following people on Instagram, that’s how I feel with those people who show the real stuff.

Like, there are beautiful women on there who will show their pictures filtered and unfiltered.

And every time I look at it, I’m just like, “It’s so nice to see real people doing that.”

And they’re inspiring other women who have low self-esteem to realize that not everyone out there is stick-thin or has the perfect glutes that they see on all the fitness models and all that kind of stuff that people are filtering.

So it is great to see.

And I think that what you’ve just done is one of the bravest things I’ve ever heard. Honestly, I can’t believe it.

Christine Handy: Well, can I tell you one more thing about that?

Because I got a message today from somebody on social media, and she has messaged me for several months, maybe years, I can’t remember.

And she said to me today, she lives in a different country, and the country she lives in does not tolerate women without breasts, so they have to wear something that makes them look like they have breasts.

She messaged me on social media today and she said, “Today was the first time ever I didn’t wear my prosthetic to work.”

And she goes, “I was at work for five minutes and I walked home and I put it back on.”

And I messaged her back and I said, “That’s your first step. At least you got that far.”

She would have never, ever, ever not worn the prosthetic if she had not been watching me do what I do.

And it has nothing to do with me. It’s about helping other people.

And if I can show courage like I showed, like I said when I was talking about chemotherapy, how I didn’t meditate on the outcome anymore, I decided that every single day I was going to show courage because it was going to help me and other people.

It’s the same thing.

If I show courage and I don’t put a prosthetic on, and no disrespect to anybody that wears a prosthetic, I love that. You have to do you. I have to do me.

But if I choose not to wear a prosthetic and I want to showcase this so that other people don’t feel so ashamed or alone in their pain, I’m going to do that all day long.

And so it’s a privilege to do this. It’s a privilege to show courage because that’s like a wave effect.

If I show courage, if you show courage, other people are going to feel that, and then they’re going to have that courage. They’re going to see it and they’re going to learn from that.

Sabrina Chevannes: How do you handle the comments?

Because people must still say stuff. People must still stare.

Christine Handy: People stare all the time. I live in Miami. They stare all the time.

Sabrina Chevannes: How do you handle that?

It can’t be all sunshine and positivity all the time.

You must be thinking, “Oh my God, they’re staring.”

I feel like at some point that must hurt.

Christine Handy: Sometimes I look at women’s beautiful breasts and I get jealous.

It’s not that I’m jealous, but I miss it, right? I miss that.

And I’ve been going through a divorce for a long time. I had to go back out into the dating world. That’s a little bit scary when you have a concave chest, right?

Wow, and so that’s a whole new level.

And so I just know I have rebuilt my life on a sustainable self-esteem and faith.

Nobody can touch that. Nobody can take that away.

It cannot ever be stolen from me. Faith can never be stolen from you.

Sabrina Chevannes: How have you found dating in this world? Have you met many men who are actually understanding?

Christine Handy: Yeah.

And I don’t ever cover it up.

I always say to people who I meet or whatever, if they ask me out on a date or something, I say, “Go Google me first. Go see what is out there.”

Because I don’t want anybody who doesn’t want to be with me.

And there’s plenty of information online about what I do and why I do it.

And there’s pictures of me walking New York Fashion Week in clothes where you can certainly see I’m concave.

And so I’d rather them just see that first, and then if they want to take me out on a date, that’s fine.

But I never want anybody in my life that doesn’t want to be in my life.

Sabrina Chevannes: How much of a better world would it be if everyone just surrounded themselves with people who they wanted to be around, and they wanted to be around them?

There are so many people out there desperately trying to impress the wrong people.

Christine Handy: Trying to impress anybody, that’s a red flag.

And I’m not trying to impress anybody by what I do, you know what I mean?

Sabrina Chevannes: I feel like I could speak to you about this forever. It’s all so inspiring. It’s crazy.

But I want to give one last note, I guess, to those women out there who have, and I say women, but men get breast cancer too. My uncle got breast cancer. It happens.

But I guess for women, I think it’s the femininity aspect of it. That’s a huge part of who we are as women.

To any women out there who have been diagnosed or are going through any bit of this, as you’ve said, because it was 10 years later and you still had to be hit with another horrific thing, I still can’t believe it.

What advice would you give them?

Christine Handy: That’s a very loaded question.

I would dive into faith and whatever that looks like for you.

I mean, I don’t like to preach about religion because it’s not my place. I’m not a preacher.

But if I did not know God, I don’t know if I would still be here.

So that’s where I go.

I say to myself all the time, because there are things, as I live in chronic pain, there are things that happen to me every day.

And I say to myself, when things get really difficult for me, “Let go and let God.”

I mean, I guess you could say, “Let go and let the universe.”

Give yourself the grace, whatever it is for you.

But I wouldn’t meditate on the outcome because the outcome is going to be the outcome, right?

I still could get cancer tomorrow.

But if I live every day as best I can in a way that I’m proud of myself, showing courage and showing up for myself even in trauma, that’s the best advice.

Sabrina Chevannes: That’s amazing.

I feel like you’re right there because I’m not religious, but I really, really admire people who are.

And I always say this because I’m not religious at all, and a lot of people who aren’t religious don’t like talking about religion.

But I actually am a little bit jealous of people who are religious.

Like, you just saying that at tough times you can turn to God and you have someone who’s always there for you, loves you unconditionally, you can speak to, and not feel alone.

Because I’m not like that. I don’t necessarily have that.

So I feel like in some ways I’m kind of jealous of people who do have that faith, and I get it.

But you’re right. I think it doesn’t matter whether it’s God or whatever it is, some kind of belief system.

Exactly. Faith in something that means a lot. I think that’s so important.

And yeah, I think for me it’s being blessed to have such people in your life that really do care and love for you.

And that’s really important, like you said, people who actually stick by you through those tough times because there are not many of them out there who really would.

Christine Handy: Well, I’ll stick by you.

Sabrina Chevannes: Thank you. I’m forever in your team for sure.

It’s been an absolute pleasure today.

And maybe you’ll think that I’m like, “Oh, I can’t believe it.” But honestly, it’s been so amazing to have you on.

And for sure, I’m sure I’d want to speak to you again and have some more words of wisdom for women out there.

But I just think this will be one of the most inspiring episodes I’ve got.

And I’m sure that loads of people will want to speak to you.

So what’s the best way, if people want to get in touch with you? What’s the best way to get in contact?

Christine Handy: Well, I guess social media.

You can Google Christine Handy. There’s a lot of information out there.

I am on major social media platforms.

I don’t respond a lot to Twitter because I’m not on it much, but I’m obsessed with Pinterest.

I am a fan of Instagram, and I do Facebook and things like that.

So Christine Handy, or ChristineHandy1 on Instagram because there was already a Christine Handy on Instagram, so I had to put the one next to it.

But my book is called Walk Beside Me. It’s a good read. It’s been quite popular.

The feature film that’s coming out about my life, there’s stuff out there.

Sabrina Chevannes: There’s a lot of stuff out there. I feel like I need to delve into it and do another podcast episode.

But I’m going to put everything in the show notes so that people can get in touch with you.

And yeah, it’s been so wonderful, and I can’t wait to hear what people have to say and speak to more people who have been inspired by you.

And just keep doing what you’re doing because you’re a rare breed, and the world needs more people like you for sure.

Christine Handy: Thank you.

Sabrina Chevannes: Thank you.

And thanks everyone for listening in today.

If you liked the podcast, then please be sure to hit that like button or subscribe.

The vanity metrics that we’ve been talking about definitely do help the podcast reach more people, and we’d really appreciate it to get these great gems like we had today out there.

So thank you so much, and I’ll see everyone next week.