Personal Interlude: Navigating Racism
Personal Interlude Navigating Racism
In this episode, Sabrina Chevannes shares personal stories about facing racism as an entrepreneur. She discusses her experiences, including losing followers after a viral LinkedIn post, various racist incidents she has encountered, and the challenges black entrepreneurs face.
Sabrina aims to provide insights and support to others who may encounter similar issues, emphasizing the importance of recognizing and addressing these adversities while maintaining focus on personal and professional growth.
In This Episode...
Sabrina delves into the psychology around why we compare ourselves to others and how we can stop ourselves doing it.
0.00: Introduction to the Podcast
0.24: A Shift to Personal Stories
1.45: Facing Racism: A Personal Account
4.09: Weekly Encounters with Racism
7.03: Analyzing Racist Incidents
16.29: Viral LinkedIn Posts and Public Reactions
20.45: Concluding Thoughts and Future Plans
Welcome back to another episode of Sniffing Out the Bullsh*t. Today’s episode is a little different. Instead of sniffing out some bullsh*t, I thought I would bring you a bit of a personal story instead.
As I started chatting with followers across my social media profiles, it became clear that many of them wanted to hear more personal stories about me.
I thought, “Oh the perfect place for that would be a podcast”, but then I realised that this podcast is all about educating people, and my other podcast, No Bullsh*t Talks, is all about my guests.
So, there never is really a good time to talk about my own personal stories.
Therefore, I’ve decided to create some “personal interludes” in this podcast series, where I just bring you a bit of a personal story about some bullsh*t that I have faced and how I’ve handled it.
The idea of this is to help others who may have faced similar situations.
Unfortunately, I have faced a fair amount of adversity in my time and I often wish I had handled the situation better. But I am always learning from my experiences.
Hopefully, this podcast will help you deal with things better than I did.
Right, so my first personal interlude is going to be on the topic of racism.
I’ve chosen this one first because I decided to share a story on LinkedIn the other day and it went viral. However, I lost about 200 followers after doing that because many people don’t like hearing about racism, and so I wrote about that and that post went viral too!
So, I know that lots of people DO want to talk about it and many believe that there are things that need to be done.
I never really talk about race, because I was brought up not to. It was always easier not to. Most people did not understand.
Any time you did bring something up, they’d accuse you of having a chip on your shoulder, playing the race card or simply making it up.
Now that I’m in my 30s, I have a lot more confidence about talking about difficult topics and so I bring up the topic of race when I have something to say that I consider to be important.
However, the reactions are still very disappointing. Many people pretend racism doesn’t exist; they try to explain away the person’s actions or words, or gaslight you into thinking that you’ve interpreted it wrong or misunderstood them.
And this is the reaction of your friends… Yup – those closest to you still struggle to admit what’s really happening and instead just make excuses.
It’s so insanely difficult to deal with.
So we choose not to talk about it, to ignore the issue, as it’s much easier than having to argue with our supposed friends.
Then other friends are just very ignorant to the issue. They’re not even aware of all the things going on. They don’t notice the looks you get when you walk into a shop or when someone stops you and asks you questions because you “look suspicious”. They just assume it’s “random”.
Many of my friends say things like “Oh that stuff doesn’t really happen these days!”
Let me tell you; I don’t have a single week that goes by where I don’t encounter some form of racism.
Just this week, at the time of recording, these are some, let’s say “annoying” things happen to me this week:
– I had someone stop me in Tesco to check if I had paid for a 30p bag.
– Someone deliberately drove through a puddle and shout out the window “F*** you, Bitch!”
– As I was walking down the street, a lady looked behind me scared and then grabbed her bag very tightly and sped up her walking.
– In a discussion about racism, someone said: “I don’t know why you get much racism, because you don’t really act or speak black.”
– I was at an event and someone said to me: “Why do you have to be so loud? Can you just calm down a bit, please?”
Now, of course, I don’t know if any of these things are about race at all. Well, OK, the one talking about racism was clearly about race, but we can’t say for sure that this comment was meant to be racist.
But the problem is, as a black person, you can’t help but wonder if you’re being treated in such a way because of the colour of your skin.
And OK, you may be thinking “But that’s no way to live – you’re just being paranoid.”
And to some extent, you’re right. But I’ve also done the complete opposite. I’ve not looked at ANY of the signs and just given people the benefit of the doubt.
I will then work my butt off over and over to try and impress those people – whether it’s in a pitch process, a job interview, a social setting, or educational setting, I try my best to prove my worth.
So I end up beating myself up because I think I’m not good enough, but I never stood a chance in the first place.
Which is better?
Neither really. It would be great if racism just didn’t exist and we wouldn’t have this problem, but we do!
So, let’s take a look at each of those situations one by one to determine what’s really going on, objectively.
Situation 1: I’m walking out of Tesco with a 30p bag and my shopping in it.
I’ve got a receipt, because OMG do I always need a receipt… because well, of situations like this.
A shop assistant (not a security guard) stopped me to ask if I had scanned my 30p bag. I said “Yes, I have, and I’m probably the only one who has”. As I saw plenty of people around my just nicking bags, as they usually do.
Perhaps I shouldn’t have made this quip, but these situations infuriate me.
I had to show my receipt and the 30p bag was on there and I was allowed to go. No apology was given though.
This pissed me off, even though it shouldn’t have done. And I actually decided to wait around outside to observe to see if anyone else got stopped.
I waited for 8 minutes until someone else got stopped… a black man.
At that point, I got super annoyed and went on with my journey.
Now, that was a monumental waste of my time. If you pro-rata my hourly rate, my Tesco shop was pretty expensive that day.
But I had to know.
Is that a good way to handle the situation? No. How should I have done it? Well, I guess I need to accept the fact there will always be situations like this. I did everything I could have done, which was obtain a receipt.
The actual checking delayed me by 30 seconds; it was my own curiousness that made me miss an additional 8 minutes.
Sure, this situation is wrong, but I can’t really prove anything here and going up against them isn’t really going to do anything for the greater good.
This is a situation I can just ignore and move on from.
I don’t like it when people dismiss things and say it’s easier to keep quiet, because I’ve been doing that all my life and I feel like I am a bit disappointed with myself for not really taking action and trying to make things better.
But I genuinely do not see how we can really make this situation any better, so it’s not worth the energy.
Situation 2: Someone driving through a puddle and screaming at me.
Now, I have zero proof that this guy did it because he’s racist. He may not have been at all. He may have just been a dickhead.
It’s just that I told someone this story and they said, “Oh we know people who do that to black people”.
I just replied with “Oh charming!”
There is absolutely NOTHING I can do in this situation and I don’t even know who the guy is. So, worrying about this one for more than 10 seconds is absolutely futile.
Situation 3: The lady walking down the street who grabbed her bag.
This one was so silly, but I actually get it soooo much, it’s ridiculous.
If people want to make snap judgments, then that’s THEIR problem.
I also don’t care about this one either and I do not let it bother me.
Part of me wants to cross the road when they cross the road and speed up when they speed up, but then I’d feel like I’m actually stalking them, so that ain’t good!
Again, I just go about my business. In fact, I often stop, get out my phone and pretend I need to look stuff up so they can walk on ahead without feeling like I’m gonna mug them.
Now, situation 4 is different. I get this comment a lot – “You don’t sound black”. I mean… WHAT ON EARTH DOES THIS EVEN MEAN???? How do you want me to speak? What is black speak?
Wagwaaaan blud? I mean, the people I hear who speak like that aren’t even black!!
It’s soo stupid, honestly. And then I don’t “act black” either. What am I supposed to be doing? Walking with a swag? Smoking weed on the streets? Dressed in sweats and big gold chains?
I mean, these comments are sooooo dumb and there IS something that can be done about this.
Every time someone says something unbelievably ignorant like this… CALL IT OUT. Tell them why it’s stupid.
I don’t care if you make them feel dumb for saying it, cos it IS dumb!!!
This is what needs to happen more – open conversations about what sort of things are inappropriate to say. They need to realise that what they said is based on biases they possess and this doesn’t help anyone.
The problem is, if you call this out and say that it’s racist, you will be told off because it sounds supportive.
You will be told that you should be thankful because they’re supporting you – they actually said a nice thing to you and it’s not offensive.
But let’s think about it – is it nice??!
Why is it nice to say I don’t sound or act black? Doesn’t that then mean that sounding or acting black is a bad thing??
But when you start to bring that up, they say “Ohhhhh that’s not what I meant – you’re twisting my words”.
And this is why people don’t say anything.
OK, so the last situation. I’ve been having this all my life. People telling me off because I’m so loud.
Now, again, I sound like I have a chip on my shoulder for saying this is anything to do with race.
Now, I never actually thought it was ANYTHING to do with race until about 2 years ago!
I’ve always just been told I’m loud and I accepted that.
When I talk, people tell me to calm down.
I’M BLOODY CALM!!!! I scream at them. Which doesn’t really help the situation.
But I just didn’t understand why people thought I was always so worked up. I was just being me.
It was only a couple of years ago when I was at an event and someone said it to me and said “Gosh, you’re a little much for me” and walked away.
I actually got reallllllllly upset by this and I don’t even know why. I think I found it quite rude as I felt they basically insulted me to my face.
But I put it down to me being a bit too sensitive and I just gotta realise that I’m definitely not for everyone. And I can indeed be a little much for people.
But then that same person was talking to another lady who was probably twice as loud and more energetic than me. And he said to her “OMG I LOVE your energy.”
And I was like WAIT WHAT????
I did NOT get it.
It bothered me so much that I went up to the lady later on to tell her what had happened and to ask if I was being silly over it.
It was her who said to me, and I remember this so well:
“Oh, my black friends say this to me all the time. I’m wayyyyyyy louder than them, but they get told to be quiet and I never do. In fact, people think I’m quiet compared to them which makes no sense.”
My mind was blown.
I then started to observe this more, now that I was conscious over it, and I’ve seen this situation replicate itself over and over.
I’ve even learned how to deal with people who say I’m loud.
I understand if I am being inappropriate in a particular situation, but I don’t think I ever am. If I get told to calm down, I reply very calmly that I am very calm, but if they keep telling me to calm down, I won’t be for much longer.
And if they tell me that I’m too loud, I say: “I’m sorry, but this is my voice. I believe it’s called good projection. I’d rather continue to talk clearly.” I will also point out that my voice isn’t actually louder than other people’s in the room, which it often isn’t.
Or if I get animated because I’m passionate about a topic, I will explain that.
I will say that I am just extremely excited and passionate about what I’m talking about and that’s why I have so much energy while I am talking. And I believe that to be a good thing!
So yeah, those are five very different scenarios, all of which I’ve reacted differently to.
Ohhhh I didn’t even cover those viral posts I talked about at the beginning of the episode! OMG.
Let me tell you what happened.
I was out for a few drinks the other evening with a bunch of people. We were all talking about business and I was explaining that I was setting up a members club for entrepreneurs.
One particular guy said: “Black women don’t run businesses. Maybe they dabble in hair and beauty, but they don’t run real companies”.
When I challenged him and said that I’ve been running my own company for 16 years, he replied with:
“No love, you’ve been playing entrepreneur all that time but you don’t have an actual business”.
What’s extremely sad is that the others did not disagree… including the women.
Now, this annoyed me for so many reasons. Obviously, the fact that he even thinks like this, but the fact he has the audacity to say it in public. I guess it’s because no one disagrees with him… or they don’t dare to in front of his face.
Black women running businesses have been known to struggle to get financial support, or even have people believe that they’re any good at business.
It’s no wonder, with people’s attitudes like this.
The worst part for me was when he asked me to name some black women running successful businesses that they built from scratch that he would have heard of.
Now, I have plenty in my inner circles, but he would not have heard of them. So I racked my brain to think of people he would know.
I couldn’t think of any.
This made me feel so disappointed. I could think of white women, or other women of colour, but no black women.
What did this mean? That he was right?! Absolutely not, because there are lots out there!
But what it means is that they’re not featured. They’re not spotlighted like other people and that’s a problem.
It made me realise that even though it’s 2024 and things seem better, there are still so many adversities that we are going to face and business still won’t be that easy for many years to come.
But what do we do about it?
We cannot go around assuming that people are racist, because they’re not always. There are so many allies out there supporting people of colour, for which we are grateful.
However, we will always encounter racism, no matter what colour we are. Just like we will always face misogyny, or homophobia.
There are always going to be nasty people out there and we have to learn how to deal with them.
Sure, some will make it extremely difficult for us to do our business, but we have to see it as just another obstacle on the entrepreneur rollercoaster rather than slip into the victim mindset and feel sorry for ourselves.
That’s a really dangerous place to be as we then start making excuses for things or even lashing out.
We will end up getting quite down on things that are happening and may even give up hope.
We have to remember to run our own race and block out all the noise that’s stopping us from achieving our goals.
I am still learning how to navigate racism myself.
I have had some nasty incidents over the years and never really processed most of them properly. So, I’m trying to do so now, each time something like this happens.
If you ever want to chat to someone about it, please come find me on LinkedIn as I’m often hanging out there and discussing these things.
I hope you’ve enjoyed today’s personal interlude – I think I may do one of these every few episodes to mix it up.
I will see you all next week for one of the regular episodes of Sniffing Out the Bullsh*t.



