I always say to content creators: if you are truly influential, you don’t have to create something that doesn’t already exist. Like in a sense that you don’t need to manufacture your life in a certain way—just live your life.

I think true influence comes from your story, your experiences, and how you’re able to use those experiences to inspire others. That may not necessarily be glamour and all of that.

No Bullsh*t Talks is a podcast for entrepreneurs, by entrepreneurs. There’s too much bullsh*t out there, especially when it comes to business. This podcast aims to highlight what’s true and what’s not in the world of entrepreneurship, bringing you honest and raw conversations about the roller coaster that is entrepreneurship.

Each week, my guest will be a high-performing entrepreneur, sharing the ups and downs of their journey and helping you prepare for the road ahead while providing you with actionable insights and absolute gems of knowledge.

Stay tuned as I introduce this week’s guest.

Alicia Richardson is the founder of Black Create Connect, a podcast host, an advisory board member for startups, a DEI trainer, and a lead diversity, equity, and inclusion consultant. She’s also a TED speaker and has worked with brands such as Home Depot and Salesforce.

I present to you this week’s guest.

[Music]

Welcome, Alicia, to No Bullsh*t Talks.

Thank you. Thank you for having me. I feel great to be here.

I feel great that you’re here too. I mean, I’ve also been on your podcast, so it’s only fair to return the favor.

But you are, I feel like, a no bullsh*t kind of person. That’s why we vibe 100%.

One hundred percent. And also, no bullsh*t to myself as well.

Yeah, exactly. I think that’s a really good point you put, actually, because I think when I first started the brand, people were saying, “What does no bullsh*t mean?” They took it offensively and were like, “Does that mean you don’t take bullsh*t from anyone?”

I was like, “No. It means that I just don’t bullsh*t anyone. I don’t want any bullsh*t in my life. I want to just be real and have a conversation. And like you said, don’t bullsh*t yourself.”

Because people tell a narrative to themselves that something’s a certain way in the world, or even limiting beliefs: “I can’t do this because of this.” And I’m like, “No, it’s bullsh*t. Wake up.”

Exactly. And the thing is, I’m a big fan as well of making sure you hold yourself accountable. We all make mistakes. We all don’t do things perfectly. We’re all learning. So it’s when you don’t own up to it, and when you don’t try to correct it and act delusional about it, that’s problematic.

Yeah, exactly. And we’re all human. We all make mistakes. Like you said, if you just say, “Do you know what? I screwed up. I’m sorry,” how can you be mad at someone who’s genuinely really sorry and has screwed up? They tried their best with good intentions.

I would be mad at someone who lies and cheats and then pretends they didn’t do anything wrong, and then is just like, “No, I didn’t do that,” or gaslights you to make you feel like you’ve done the wrong thing. Nah, I can’t be done with that.

Hold your hands up, admit it, and it’s much better.

Agreed. Agreed.

But yeah, we haven’t even introduced you, so I feel like people are going to be like, “Hang on a minute. You’re having this conversation about random crap, and they’re like, ‘Who is this woman?'”

So, Alicia, please tell us about yourself—who you are and why you’re here.

I will do. It’s so strange because I feel like who I am develops and evolves.

Like it’s a good thing—growth.

That’s what it is. It’s growth.

It is. It is.

It’s so, so different.

So currently now, I am still the founder of Black Create Connect. To explain what Black Create Connect is, that’s more so the community side of what I do.

I initially started that as a WhatsApp group in 2020 during the whole Black Lives Matter movement, the protests, and also when there were a lot of Black people losing their jobs, being made redundant, or put on furlough.

I also realized that when I was working in recruitment, a lot of decisions that were made for more senior-level hires found a way to exclude Black professionals, either through education or through style and approach, or through halo bias. For those that don’t know what halo bias is, it’s when you think someone is basically good because they’re like you. You go, “Oh, you’re like me. You’re great.”

Because of those things, a lot of Black people had missed opportunities. So I felt like I needed to create a WhatsApp group just to share stories so you don’t feel alone, share experiences, share jobs, opportunities, tips, advice. I just felt like we needed a community.

That kind of built over time and grew, and our objective was to partner with companies to help them reach creative and tech talent.

Recently, this year, I also started Create Connect Agency. The reason why I started that was because I realized I can’t help every single Black creative—or even every Black person—and I can’t help every type of company because there were some companies that would approach me that weren’t right for the type of work that I do or how I approach things.

But there were other communities they could connect with or other organizations that would be better for them. So I thought, why not be the kind of broker, if you want to call it, and support employers with connecting to a wider range of communities? Because we’re in a community era at the moment.

Yeah, everyone’s got their niche.

Literally, we’re in an era, and I don’t feel like I need to be the only one that they connect with. So hence why I created Create Connect Agency.

Rolling on to where we are right now, those two things exist. We then work with creators because we started off by advertising jobs through content creators.

The reason why we started doing that was because I remember when I was hiring, I used to advertise jobs on Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn through my network, and I was able to get a diverse range of individuals that weren’t even within my network.

So I thought to myself, I’m not even an influencer, and I’ve managed to hire people through social media. Imagine if we actually utilized content creators that have trusted voices and prominent audiences. Imagine we utilized them.

There are so many more career content creators than ever before as well. When I looked at the budgets internally when I worked in-house, we used to spend half a million sometimes on recruitment for the year.

It’s expensive.

It’s so expensive. Getting recruiters, spending the time doing interviews—the budget’s wild. It was insane.

I thought, you’re using recruiters that also don’t necessarily practice diverse hiring because they’re just trying to get a fee. I’ve been there. They just want their commission.

Then you’ll get companies that say, “Okay, well, let’s use this diverse hiring job board,” or “the BAME job board,” or “the POC job board.” Nothing’s wrong with that because I guess that’s your way of making an effort, but I never saw the impact.

I thought people are not applying on this because when they’re looking for jobs, they’re just looking at what’s in front of them and what’s loud in front of them. Also, you’re not going to get the best candidates from diverse backgrounds that are actively looking all the time. You’re going to get the passive ones.

You get the passive ones through creators, and you have to build up your brand’s voice through creators and communities as well because that’s where the trust comes in.

So that’s where I thought to myself, okay, let me build up my network of creators. That’s when I had the first creator event at Google that you came to, so thank you so much.

You presented as well, gave all your insights, and I thought, let’s just see.

Then I realized, “Oh my goodness.” I don’t just have access to career creators. There’s so many creators. And the theme was a lot of Black and ethnic minority creators are not able to monetize as much, or they don’t know how to monetize as much with content creation.

So I just felt like, okay, we need to figure out a way to teach people how to do this because, like what we’re saying, let’s be real, it’s expensive doing content. It’s time-consuming, and when you’re not making the money, then you put it on pause, which means that you’re slower to actually get into your goals of content.

So I did that event for that purpose. Off the back of that, I then spoke to TikTok. TikTok then approached me about a partnership to help creators with TikTok Live. It seemed like a no-brainer because no other platform pays anyone to go on Live at all.

So even now we could have just gone live, and we will do because you’re going to work with TikTok. I’m also going to work with TikTok, and we’ll do it.

We’ll do a Live on TikTok.

Exactly. But yeah, exactly that. And we’ll get paid for it.

Which is exactly… so when I saw the numbers, like with TikTok and how much creators were making, I thought to myself, this only makes sense to offer the opportunity. Not everyone has to take it, but it’s not a pyramid scheme where we’re having to say to people, “Give us this money, and then you have to get X amount of people.” No, no, no.

We’re just saying, do what you do anyway, and we’ll help to elevate that, and you just make the money. TikTok pay us. That’s it, literally.

So off the back of that, we then also now manage TikTok Live creators. So we did an event recently with TikTok and TikTok Live, and again, that was massive.

And what I found, the trend is that both events were way oversubscribed and way over capacity. I was actually late to my panel at the TikTok event because I had to go downstairs and basically apologize to people outside that couldn’t get in because I felt so bad.

And the next day I was crying and crying because I just felt so guilty about people leaving their houses in the cold and having to wait outside for hours. I just felt guilty just smiling and going straight on the panel knowing people are downstairs in my community that trusted me and knew me, even clients as well that had come to check out the event.

Do you know what that says to me? How different a person you are compared to so many of the other people doing this stuff.

You’ve just told me that your event was so oversubscribed that you had people in the TikTok building queuing out downstairs, and it was so full, and you’re crying and feeling guilty.

Do you know most people would be going on TikTok, Instagram, LinkedIn the next day and be like, “Oh my God, just sold out my thing last night. People were queuing outside the door. I’m amazing. Oh my God, what have I done?” Not in that accent, obviously. I don’t know what that was. You know, he just put a voice on to take the piss out of someone. I don’t know what that was.

But the point is, that’s what they would have done. So many people would be bragging about it, making it all about themselves and how great they are, that they’re so popular they had this event.

But you’re like… you feel guilty because that’s the difference. You care about the people in your community.

And that’s why I get so irate with the word “community” at the moment because I feel like it’s lost all meaning.

You started it during 2020, during a time when it actually mattered that we had each other’s backs during that really stressful time, like you said, the George Floyd stuff. Black people were terrified, and they just felt alone and misunderstood. They didn’t know what was going on.

And you created this community where people actually cared. Now everyone and their dog has a community, and it’s just all about the numbers. Anyone’s allowed, and no one even knows their name, and no one gives a crap about their name. They just want money and popularity, and that’s the thing.

And to be totally honest with you, I’ll be candid. Our community lasted… well, the WhatsApp community.

Anyway, and by the way, what I will say is that it’s so important not to just have your community on one platform. I had to make sure that I get emails, I get numbers, I get all of that so that I can really stay in touch with them.

But my WhatsApp group was over a thousand in January, and it was a lot of noise. And I was not making any money, okay? I was trying, I was pitching, I had left my full-time job to focus on Black Create Connect full-time. Companies stopped caring, the community wasn’t investing in ways because we put on paid events, and they wasn’t investing in a way that was going to be sustainable.

So I was like, “I need to restructure the community and how we do this.”

So this is, I guess, a learning mistake that I made. I then transitioned to a platform called Nas, and I said, “Okay, I’m going to charge everyone £10 a month to be in this community,” which I think is nothing because people get business contacts, you come to events for free, you eat for free, you have access to all these companies. I just think £10 a month is fine. Nothing, right?

On top of that, I recorded a whole course that breaks down tips on networking, executive presence, how to maintain being yourself and showcasing your value online. I put that all on there as well for people to access. Plus, we did monthly sessions. So I was like, “Okay, this is great value. People are going to pay for it.”

Ask me how many people paid for it from one over 1,000 WhatsApp group.

I have to keep…

Because I’m obviously going through the same thing myself, which I say, and I know this from all our clients and everything. The moment you ask people for money, they ain’t interested.

So I have a thousand… I’m going to go with less than 10%.

100%. Yeah, you’re correct. You’re correct.

Absolutely correct. Probably getting 5%.

Yeah, I was going to say about 8% was what I was going to say.

5%.

Yeah, which was heartbreaking, right?

Which initially was £10 a month. People spend more than that on coffee, or probably drop most of that on the street. That’s just ridiculous.

And the thing is, for me as well, what hurt me is because I was also the person that would always look out for other people. So I would always be like, “Let me bring your business in here. Let me make sure your catering business can get money from this company,” or, “Bring your clothes in there.”

Last year, when we had an event at ASOS, they didn’t plan to have any stalls of people’s clothes. I called up brands that I know want to advertise their clothes. I said, “Come, bring your clothes. Just advertise yourself. It’s at ASOS. You might get a connection.”

You know, I’m always looking out for people. So I felt like my community didn’t look out for me, and I was broken, you know, because I felt like…

I remember I was talking to one of my coaches, Nathan, and I just felt so demotivated. Shout out Nathan. Nathan was just there for me because I was just crying, saying, “My community are not showing up for me. Companies don’t care anymore. I don’t feel valuable, actually.”

But it’s crazy because at that time, in March, I was doing back-to-back International Women’s Day talks. So people are thinking, “Alicia is rocketing. She’s just done a TEDx talk. She’s doing bits.”

I’m like, “You don’t know how low I am right now because I don’t have the backing and support that I need.”

And I also felt like I didn’t have any value to give, obviously, because the community’s not paying for it, companies are not paying for it. That’s a hard place to be in when all I’ve ever wanted to do is give back to the community, and I’ve invested a whole heap of money in the community, whether it’s getting content, whether it’s food, whether it’s events, whatever it is, prizes.

So much money. I’ve invested enough for a house deposit, okay? So I was heartbroken.

But then I had to kind of sit with myself and think, “Okay, what am I doing this for, Alicia? What’s the goal here?”

Let me actually focus on that 5% that have said yes. Let me focus on that small amount of clients that have said yes. Let me just focus on that.

Let me remind myself this isn’t about me and my feelings. This is about me giving back to those that need to be invested into. So I just started to reinvest my energy into that.

I remember when I even bought Cannes. I wasn’t making the money I wanted to make when I booked Cannes, but I booked it in faith because I made business last year. So I went to Cannes. Thank goodness I managed to get business there immediately, straight away, which is great.

And I had to literally say to myself, “You need to consume good content, surround yourself with much more honest, better, integral people that are really going to hold the mirror up to you, hold you accountable, and also support you as well so that you can perform better and make better decisions.”

And I’d say the mistake that I made with Nas was that I might have just jumped in regards to the price. I think maybe I jumped because I lost a lot of the community at the time. But the positive thing is it’s rebuilding, and the people that we’re rebuilding the community with are ideally what we want.

So the actual WhatsApp community is way less now, like 200, right? But there’s 200 dope people. And sometimes it just takes those moments for you to go from the noise, to go a bit quiet, to realize this is what’s important. This is the value that you need to focus on.

And I’ve met some incredible people along this journey in the past six months, and business has picked up and things are going much better, like I said. So yeah, but it’s been a journey.

So that’s a quick intro.

A quick intro as to what I do.

That was a very, very long intro.

Do you know what? Yeah, it was a long intro, but it’s such good insight. And I felt for you every step of when you were just talking about that because that’s exactly what’s going on with me at the moment.

As you know, I’m running my own… I hate the word “community,” so I’m not even going to try and say it. So I’m running my own members’ club, is what I’m calling it, because we are being so selective. We are not letting in people.

We’ve worked out that we only have an 8% acceptance rate.

Who are you accepting? Like, very few people.

So they have to have the right attitude. They are not the type of person that’s just…

For example, one of the questions on the form is, “Why do you want to come to the community? What would you bring to the community?”

And they just talk about how amazing they are and they’re going to sell all their services to everyone. And I’m just like, if you’re missing the whole entire point of it…

So all they’re there for is to promote themselves and gain as much as they can. And whilst that will happen—if you connect to the right people, you will get business, you will elevate your brand, you will elevate yourself and your career—we want that for you. But that’s not the first and foremost reason we want you to be there.

So it’s attitude, it’s values. It’s people who care about lifelong learning, people who care about being there for each other—everything you’ve just said, how you’re just there for each other, have each other’s back, making introductions—and people who care about having a life where we’re less stressed, we’re doing more, we’re spending more time with our loved ones, and actually creating the ideal life for ourselves rather than this go, go, go mentality all the time.

And I just feel like, you know, there’s been a few people who have applied and I’ve just not got a good vibe from them.

Really?

Yeah. And I actually go through their social media, and I can see the sort of stuff they’re posting on social media. They’re posting anti-trans stuff. They’re posting really politically…

How do you address it, though, when they come up to you? Because I had that recently where I removed someone from the community, and they approached me in public.

They told people. But how did you respond?

Yeah, it’s really hard because I’m quite clear about who we want in the community. And I say that—I’m saying community, but you know what I mean.

And people then accuse you of being a dictator and having too much power. They’re like, “You’re getting drunk off power because you’re just being so selective and you’re saying no to all these people, and you’re getting off on it.”

I’m like, “No.”

Bear in mind, there’s a fee, and our fee isn’t £10 a month. We’re actually changing it now, so our whole structure is different.

Going forward, by the time this is out as well, our main level is going to be £250 a month.

That’s dope, that you can charge that.

Well, it’s because we’re doing totally different experiences. So instead of just having our events and stuff like that, they’re things that you normally can’t necessarily get.

So, for example, we’re having content creation workshops. Instead of just having some random person do it, Canva is doing it in their building. Our personal branding masterclasses are inside the LinkedIn headquarters, run by LinkedIn.

It’s stuff that other people don’t get the chance to have. So you’re paying for that because you can’t wangle that yourself, right? That’s why I say you need to be part of this members’ club to have those sorts of benefits.

And the level of discounts you get from partners pays for itself by far. You get free events and stuff like that as well. Usually these events are charged a fair amount of money, but you get all that included. Like you said, you get fed.

Imagine if I accepted 100 people at £250 a month. I’d be making bank, right? I’d be like, “Okay, great. I’m making so much money.”

So why wouldn’t I accept these people if I was being selfish?

So I’m obviously doing it for the good of the members’ club.

What I want is that every time we’ve done an event, it’s been so amazing having great quality people there. The conversation is highly intelligent. It’s very culturally diverse. It’s very open-minded. Everyone’s willing to listen to each other. People are supporting each other. People are passing business to each other.

I want that all the time.

If I just let in anyone, you just need one bad egg to ruin that whole vibe, and everyone’s having a crappy time.

What I want is that we are founders, and we were saying this earlier. As founders, we spend all our time on our business. It’s tiring. Imagine you don’t have a social life. You can’t do much if you’re spending all your time in your business.

I want to make sure that I’m creating experiences where you can benefit, you can enjoy yourself, and it’s actually a social thing. You’re making friends along the way.

You can’t do that if you’ve got some crappy people who just want to sell to you all the bloody time, or they’re just full of bullshit.

The whole point is called No Bullshit Talks, right?

A lot of these people are posting bullshit day in, day out online. I’m like, “No, I know this is bullshit.”

You’re bragging about how much money you’ve got. Every post is about winning another client every single day, but you’re saying you can’t afford the £250 a month and you want a discount.

That ain’t adding up.

If you’re apparently making six-figure months and 90% of that’s profit, I’m sorry, it just doesn’t add up.

So that’s the thing. It’s not me being like, “You’re not good enough to come into my members’ club.” It’s none of that.

It’s like I’m protecting my members’ club.

Some of the people in there are solo founders. They’ve been in business a year. They’re not big hotshots. They don’t have loads of money, but their attitude is amazing. Their ambition is incredible. They are going places.

It’s just a totally different thing.

So, for me, I want those kind of people who can support each other and raise each other up.

So I am developing a strict code of conduct and a set of rules. I think when it comes to that sort of thing, if you always go back down to your code of conduct, then they can’t really say anything because it’s quite public and it’s quite clear. If they’re not adhering to that, then what can they say?

That’s it as well.

And I think that’s actually what we need to get written up—a code of conduct. Because I have it all in my head. Bear in mind, I didn’t plan for this to be a business, so it’s kind of developed into that.

And I’m conscious that actually, when people meet certain people in your network, your name gets brought up whether you like it or not. So you have to be very mindful of that.

And I know we’ve had conversations behind the scenes about concerns of who’s saying your name and who’s bringing up your name.

I do think about that, and I think, “How can I create something so someone doesn’t feel like, ‘Oh, you know, I’m offended because you’ve kicked me out or because you haven’t granted me access’?”

But a code of conduct is a really good idea because I think that helps to eliminate all doubt, and it really clarifies your alignment.

And that’s what it is. It’s just all about saying, “This is the direction that we’re going in. It seems like, based on your responses and based on what you’re doing, it’s not aligned for you. This is not good for you or me.”

So it’s good that you’ve got that in place. I’m learning a lot.

Yeah, I mean, well that’s it. I feel like everyone, like I said, is running their own community now. That’s one big thing I’d say. Like you said, you didn’t expect it to be a business—it just kind of snowballed into this thing.

I think so many people now are setting out to do this, but a lot of communities are just about the numbers. They’re just there to build something up, and they’re chasing ego. Let’s keep it real.

Exactly. I’ve met so many people, and I’m going to keep it real. I’ve met people that have recently started communities for various groups, and I have them in writing telling me, “F this community. F that.” I have it in text messages. So when I’ve seen them publicly talking about how much they care, I’m just like, they don’t care. They’re only in it for the money.

Exactly. They just want to say they run a community of X number of people, and, “I make this much money.” They don’t care about who’s in the community. For me, that is the opposite of a community.

That’s why I started this members’ club, because I was saying that I want to be the first members’ club that actually cares about their members.

100%. Because it’s like their members don’t come first. People have memberships to all these different members’ clubs in London, and I’m not even going to mention some of them because some of them have such bad reputations. They’re known to be so crappy to members. We’re sitting in one now, which is different. I am going to name-drop these guys because I love them.

It’s nice in here as well. I was like, “My God, I feel like I’m in a movie. Where are the cameras at?”

Well, that’s it. This place is the setting for loads of movies. I was watching *Skyfall* the other day, and this was the set where they go into the government building—where the new MI6 headquarters is. This place.

It’s giving “I’m a boss,” but I love it.

So, we are sitting and filming in 10 Trinity Square Private Members’ Club, which is inside the Four Seasons Hotel at Tower Bridge. This is my favorite club in London, hands down, for so many reasons. But the primary one is that they give a sh*t about members. They genuinely do, in so many ways. When you walk in, they greet you by your name. They know you.

When you walked in, did they know who you were? They were like, “You’re here for Sabrina,” and they tell you where to go.

Really?

I was quite shocked. I was like, “Okay.” They’re so accommodating. They’ll take your coat, show you where you want to go, and immediately offer you drinks. They’ll know your order. They’ll come over and say, “Would you like an Americano?”

With oat milk. He knows what I want to have.

They know my allergies. When I sit down for dinner, they’ve got it prepared. If I do any of the supper clubs, they’ve got an alternative menu for me because they know I’ve got dietary requirements. The same with my guests—they prep that all in advance. They genuinely care about their customers. If anything’s wrong, they’ll attend to it. They don’t just go, “It’s not my problem,” which is the attitude you get in a lot of places. They are here for their members, and I love this place. It’s my happy place. I absolutely love it.

It’s the one club in London that I’ve been a member of where I’ve paid the membership fee and genuinely think it’s worth every single penny.

Do you know what? It’s interesting because I have private members’ clubs as well, and there are different evaluations. I’ve only recently been introduced to private members’ clubs in the past year or so. I’ll keep it real—I wasn’t brought up around this.

Even the other day, I brought my Jamaican dad and my mum to one of the members’ clubs that I’m in. My dad was like, “So wait, this is where you young people spend your money?” For those that don’t know, that was meant to be a Jamaican accent.

Then my mum was like, “This is nice.” She was walking past the pool saying, “Oh, this is nice.”

I was like, “Yeah, Mum, this is just where we like to be.”

But I also thought to myself, “Alicia, if you’re spending money, you don’t just want the environment to look nice and be cool. You want to be around great-quality people. You also want to be looked after by the team.” There’s so much more to it.

That actually leads on to another thought I had—another eye-opening thing I had this year. I had to consistently think, “You have to listen to the members that you’ve created and that you’ve invited into your community.”

If there’s a consensus about what they want, you have to listen to it. It’s not about you, Alicia. Because if this was about you, you’d just do your own thing and have your own community by yourself.

Precisely. That’s why I was saying we’re one of the first members’ clubs that’s actually caring about the members. It’s members first.

Like you said, the members should dictate it. You had a thousand people—they weren’t really members. They were just there in the WhatsApp community, taking whatever they could. But then the moment you wanted to actually give back, they were like, “Nah, we’re gone.”

But those 200 people—they’re your real community. Those are the ones you need to listen to because they’re the ones actually paying for it.

Like I said, we’re leveling up next year. We’re increasing everything. But all the people who joined No Bullsh*t Talks this year and have been with me since day one—I’m not raising their prices. They’re my founding members. I’ve said to them, I want to make sure they know I appreciate them for believing in me from day one. So when we increase our prices, theirs are staying the same.

Because they had your back since the beginning.

Exactly. And they’re helping craft what’s coming next because I’m listening to them. It’s all about what they need and what they want. I think that’s really important. They can help shape that.

You mentioned so many things about this earlier, and I think seeing you guys grow has been amazing. Like you said, you really care. I think this is also my problem, as you know—you can easily get taken advantage of.

The problem is that there are so many people out there who will take, take, take. I’ve seen this a lot recently. For example, we talk about influencers. Influencers are an interesting bunch.

I think I get upset if someone calls me an influencer because there’s a bad reputation. Obviously, there are good influencers, but there are always bad ones that ruin it for everyone. There are a lot of them who just like to take. They believe they shouldn’t pay for anything.

So many people tell you they’re giving away PR spots to different things and, you know, to influencers and people. But then when you ask for something back, they’re like, “No.” They don’t want to pay for anything, and it’s so difficult because if you’re someone who just gives, gives, gives, where do you draw the line? Because you’re just going to give everything.

Like you said at the beginning, being real, you weren’t earning any money. At which point do you have to be like, “Actually, I need to put myself first. I need to start earning some money.”

Yeah. Do you know what’s interesting? With influencers and content creators, a lot of them have built their platform off ego and them being the star of the show.

What I guess some of my TikTok creators are fascinated about is that I have one-to-one calls with them, and I say to them, “You have to put your viewers and your audience first.”

If you’re not connecting with them, if you’re not trying to get to know them, if you’re not trying to add value to them, and it’s all about you, you will lose traction. It’s not sustainable.

I say to them, if you want to last long—I don’t know if you’re here for the short term or the long term—but my ideology is that anything you do needs to ideally be long term. It might change along the way, but it needs to be long term.

I’ve been telling all of my content creators that we’re now working with, “You need to think about what your audience wants.” Because you have these great ideas to talk about me, me, me, me, me because I want them. No. If your audience wants Q&As and wants to get to know you, do that.

If you really want to be a content creator that’s honest and transparent, do that. What is it that they want to see from you?

I’m even having to push myself out of that as well because a lot of people in the community have said to me, “We want to hear more about you—your story, your background.” Because I’m always interviewing people, I’m always doing events, and I’m always just dipping in and out.

I’m listening to that and thinking, “Okay, how can I do that in a way that’s also manageable and consistent?”

It is hard working with content creators, but my whole thing is I tell them straight. Every content creator I meet, whether I work with them or not, you have to think about the bigger picture. If you’re adding value to a wide audience, you don’t have to worry too much about trying too hard because you’re valuable.

The reason why people like Melissa’s Wardrobe, for example, have grown such an influential platform is because she gives people genuine gems on fashion. I’m not going to lie—I really look up to her and her brand because she’s managed to grow it. I don’t know her personally, but she has obviously been honest with her audience about what works, and she talks about affordable things, if that makes sense.

People resonate with honesty. They resonate with things that are real. Even when I say myself, “You know what? I tried this whole thing. That didn’t work. It didn’t make money. This did make money, though, and props to this person for that.”

People just resonate with honesty.

Yeah, and value.

Exactly. I think, for me, when I think about all the influence out there, so much of it is fake. People compare themselves to these creators all the time, and so much of it isn’t real.

If you look at the ones who are actually shining through, they’re the ones being the most real. People are so sick of it now. They don’t want the perfect, chiseled stuff.

Honestly, when I see people’s homes as well, I’m like, “Do you not live in them?” If you notice influencer homes, there’s nothing anywhere. Everything’s spotlessly clean all the time. There’s not even a cup on the table.

I’m just like, “Do you not drink coffee?” Because I see a video of you making coffee every single day, but there are no cups anywhere.

Everything’s so pristine. They don’t have anything around. It’s nice having a clean home, don’t get me wrong. My place is not that messy, but it’s lived in.

It’s lived in.

There’s stuff everywhere, so it doesn’t look like a showroom every time you’re filming content. But they basically live in a showroom, and it’s quite depressing.

When I speak to content creators, they say that. They say, “Oh, we can’t actually live properly in our home because we have to keep a whole area for content. One room is like, ‘I’m not allowed to go in it.'”

I’m like, “This is a weird way to live.”

It’s not. The whole “day in the life”—none of it’s real. Most of it’s done over five days as well.

It’s like, please be realistic.

Let me be honest with you. I did a “day in the life” once. Never doing it again, by the way. Never did it again.

No, I did a “day in the life” recently—I think it was in October or September. It was the longest thing ever. I just couldn’t exist. I was trying to work, but I kept thinking, “Okay, I’ve got to put my camera up. Work. Okay, get whatever. Walk into the room. Move the camera.” I was like, “Oh, this is too much.”

Even waking up in the morning—I literally sent the raw video to my mum, and she was just laughing because, obviously, I got up out of bed, put the camera up, turned the lights off, got back into bed—I’m being serious—and then did the shot. I was just like, “Oh.” I was like, “I’m not doing this again.” I tried it, it was cool and everything, but it’s just not me.

But also, can I ask something? Are all these content creators single? Because if I’m going to do this, my partner’s going to be in the bed, but I’m waking up and I’m going to be like—

He’s going to be like, “What are you doing? Turn the light off.”

No, no, literally. My partner would be like, “How are you doing? What are you doing?”

No, for real. It takes up time on your filming and on your editing as well.

Yeah, it’s a lot. So that’s not your real day in the life because you’re showing all this extra stuff.

When I did my first “day in the life,” it was so boring, so crap, because I was like, “I’m not going to spend…” I’d just had a long day. I got up at 6:30 in the morning and finished my last thing at 11:00 at night. I’m like, “I’m not going to be doing all this stuff in between and then editing it.” I’m just going to show all the stuff, shove it up, and be done with it instantly.

I just think there’s so much stuff out there that doesn’t feel right.

I want to go back to the content creators that you work with because you obviously work with Black content creators, and I find it interesting because even the other day I was thinking about it.

People don’t like hearing about the racial divide. Some people say there’s a disadvantage, while others just deny it exists.

I was even thinking about it when it came to content creation. Now there’s a lot of stuff out there helping people with content, and there are always courses. Everyone’s got a course on how to create a month’s worth of content in one day or whatever.

Then there’s all these “done-for-you” products. That’s a big thing, right? They say, “Done-for-you Reels,” “done-for-you content,” all that stuff. So many people are saying they’re saving hours and hours because someone has already created the content for them, and they can just upload it. It all looks really aesthetic—people making coffee, getting ready, waking up in the morning.

So, out of curiosity, I decided to purchase one of these the other day.

“Oh, did you?”

I wanted to see what it was like. It was $27 for 980 done-for-you videos.

“$980?”

No, 980 videos for $27. I mean, if it’s going to save me God knows how much time, $27 is nothing.

So I went through them and thought, “Okay.” There were loads—travel ones, aesthetic ones, dark-themed ones, beauty, girl-boss vibes. I was like, “Perfect. I can take a few of these, shove them up in the background, add some text over them, and pull out a few Reels.”

How many of those 980 videos do you think were actually usable for me personally?

That’s it.

There was not a single person of color in those Reels at all. Not one.

So I can’t use the ones with someone making coffee, or even just shoving things into a bag, or the toes on the beach—any of that. I couldn’t use a single one of them because the skin color was wrong.

Wow, that’s crazy.

But every other white person can use those, save hours of their time, put out all this content, make it look like they’ve got a life that doesn’t exist, and there’s people in villas or whatever.

There was one as well with a girl in it, and she’s got a slim build, long dark hair, whatever. If you just so happen to remotely look like that, bonus—you’ve got loads of other stuff too.

But there were hundreds of those faceless Reels with hands, legs, or whatever. I can’t use a single one of them.

The thing is, even if you could, I still think it’s inauthentic.

It is, but they’re stock videos. They’ve been going on for years. Actually, say if you’re making coffee or whatever and I don’t have my showroom house, and my coffee machine has drips of coffee on it—I’ve cleaned it off, but it’s still a bit… you know? You can still add that in as part of your everyday Reel.

Take any video on YouTube—they break it up with B-roll, right? And that B-roll is sometimes stock footage. A lot of it is stock, and sometimes it’s their own.

I would love the ability to just shove decent B-roll into my content.

That’s a really good shout. That’s a really good shout.

That’s what I wanted it for. But there was none that I could use because there was not a single person of color in that content creation.

The thing is, this is such a common conversation. I have this conversation all the time. I was having it last night with my girl about how Black content creators don’t make as much money as non-Black content creators. And that can even include Black, Indian—it can even include white, you know?

One of the things—I don’t know if you saw the video recently by a girl called Ella. She was online talking about the fact that she was invited on an influencer trip by a brand, and there were 57 influencers going. She questioned why there wasn’t one Black person on that list of 57, and because she questioned it, she was uninvited.

So was she Black herself?

She was white.

So she actually brought it up? Good for her, by the way. That’s the only way those conversations happen, because people actually listen. Because she’s not Black. If a Black person said it, people would go, ‘Oh, here we go, the moaning again.’

Exactly. That’s why we need other voices.

Interesting. So she got uninvited?

Yeah, she got uninvited.

Do we know who the brand is?

I don’t think she says, you know. I think she just says it was a brand. I don’t think she actually goes into detail about who it was. She just talks about the experience and how this is a common thing.

She consistently gets invited, so I guess sometimes the places where people can create content… Not that Black people can’t go on holiday—of course they can—but when you’re there on a brand trip with other influencers, the way you create content is going to be different. You’re going to get certain support. You’re around other content creators who get it.

When you go on holiday with your friends and you’re the content creator, they’re not trying to create content with you. They are not. They get annoyed with you.

When I’m going with my partner, he rolls his eyes. He’s like, ‘Can we just enjoy our food, please?’

That’s like with my girls. I know for a fact they get sick of me. I remember in Jamaica, I was like, ‘Guys, can we just have this time slot just for content?’ I’d even try to do a little thing, but they knew what I was doing. I’d be like, ‘I’ll take content for you if you want.’

They’re like, ‘We’re not content creators.’

I’m like, ‘I know, but just in case, you know… just in case you want it for the memories.’

So I try to get them involved so that I can get my content too. But it’s easier when you have those content creators around you.

Also, I guess it’s a thing where these things require investment and time, right? To put it together. So even if someone does have the idea, are they going to have the investment to produce it? Does anyone see the value in having that in the first place?

I even saw—I don’t know if you’ve seen that series, *Love After Love Island*.

No, I hate reality TV.

Basically.

Okay, that’s fine.

It spoke about how not everyone makes money, gets famous, and thrives after *Love Island*, right? There were a couple of content creators on there. To be fair, some of them were Black, some of them were other races, and generally they were speaking about the lack of opportunities they’ve had since. It’s because they don’t necessarily fit the conventional look or conventional personality of those that have made it, such as Molly-Mae, for example.

They’ve had to invest loads of money consistently into renting private studios, getting a photographer, getting their makeup done, and getting a stylist so that they can look the part.

My view on that—I always say to content creators—is if you are truly influential, you don’t have to create something that doesn’t already exist. In the sense that you don’t need to manufacture your life. Just live your life.

I think true influence is your story, your experiences, and how you’re able to use your experiences to inspire others. That may not necessarily be glamour and all of that.

For example, I don’t film at my parents’ house. What my parents have earned is theirs. I don’t even utilize that in my content because it’s not mine—it’s my parents’.

I try my best to be as real and authentic with my journey because I also think there are people who are so driven and have big visions, but they probably feel limited by their surroundings and what they have access to. When they see honest people online growing in front of them, that enables them to believe in themselves and think, “Okay, do you know what? I can make these steps.”

But when you’re consistently seeing people on holiday in these penthouses, private jets, yachts, and all of this…

Do you know, last night I was looking at yacht rentals. Do you know how much it is for a week for a yacht? Like a proper yacht that you can stay on—three floors?

It’s like half a million.

You know those boats in Cannes? You know the yacht parties in Cannes? I’ve spoken to brands because I was helping them do this. One brand I know actually bought a yacht to have it there because it was actually better to buy it and then resell it.

Yeah, that’s how expensive it was in Cannes. It was absolutely crazy.

It’s mad.

And you know what? This is actually something quite recent that I even want to touch on. Again, a lot of people display lives that are not real because I’ve seen it myself and I’ve experienced it.

I remember, even last week, someone posted in our community chat about an event. A guy was coming over from America. He’d apparently made a million in a day or something—you know, stuff like that. Stuff that isn’t real.

She shared a code with the community. I honestly just bought a ticket and thought, “Okay, cool. Let me just buy it to support her, whether I go or not, just because she’s promoted it.”

Later on that day, I found out this person is notorious for pyramid schemes. He’s notorious for getting people to pay for access to things like a Forex trading app, where people then have to sell it to other people rather than actually use it. He’s made a lot of money from those methods.

I’d heard a lot about him—not owing people money, but people wanting their money back from those schemes.

Then you look at what he does. He posts a lot of motivational content. You see him living this high-flying life.

I know some other people that I’ve seen living a whole high-flying life online who have asked me for money behind the scenes.

Okay?

So this is where I’m like, people are not being real because I see and experience these things consistently. That’s why I’m very strict on that.

Also, I keep pointing back to my parents, right? I don’t want people to get lost in this lifestyle.

My parents inspire me a lot because they live in a beautiful place. They’re mortgage-free. They haven’t got any debt. They’ve got loads of properties. They’re doing really well.

But my dad goes to Vauxhall Market every single weekend. I’m not joking. He goes, and he’s open about that. Whether it’s to get some plates or some great offers on duvets, he’s not ashamed of that.

He drives a nice car. He likes cars. But at the same time, what I love about my parents is that they don’t show a life that’s not real.

My mom still only boils the kettle at certain times in the house.

“Yeah, during the cheaper tariff.”

Really! She’s strict on that. She’s strict about when the dishwasher goes on and when the washing machine goes on.

These are things people don’t see. People look at the exterior and think, “Oh my gosh, your parents are so wealthy.”

But they don’t know that they live a life that’s actually wise—full of wisdom.

“Yeah, that’s it. You can be sensible and still like nice things. My parents are the same. That’s their generation, right? My dad’s Jamaican too, but my mom’s Chinese, and in Chinese culture they love to save money. She’s always finding little bargains and little ways to save money.

They’re in Malaysia for the next two months. They do it every year. They just came back from Jamaica and the Dominican Republic. On the outside, they have a great life—nice house, drive nice cars—but my dad still chops a little. They’ll be in the reduced section at Tesco trying to get some bargains.”

The problem is that when Gen Z especially see this lifestyle, it presents unrealistic expectations of the salaries they should be starting on.

It also presents unrealistic expectations for relationships because there’s pressure on young men and women to have certain lifestyles from a young age.

It’s not showcasing the journey.

When you’re just seeing the result without understanding the journey, that puts you at a loss.

I’ve seen a lot of young people trying to keep up with the lifestyle, trying to buy the latest clothes, go on the latest holidays, and get this content. But you’re not prioritizing the things that are actually important in your life.

I’m really strict on that because when I left university, Miss Alicia Latoya Richardson got a credit card.

This is me being honest about how my parents are.

I was reckless. I was a reckless spender because I’d left university, Daddy… you know… I was living the good life. I had a decent job. I was working in sales. I was making good money every month.

And I was reckless.

Do you know what my dad said to me?

“My darling, you need to leave my house.”

No, I’m being dead serious. That’s the type of parents I have.

My dad said, “You need to leave and learn how to actually fend for yourself.”

My mom said, “You need to learn the value of how you spend and budget your money.”

“Wow. But you know what? I think you are this amazing powerhouse of a woman who’s just on it with business. You could have been the little spoiled rich kid.”

I was a brat.

“That changed you into this person.”

Yeah. It was my dad because he saw it.

I remember being so angry. I was like, “Dad, all my friends are still at home and they can do this.”

He said, “I’m not your friends’ parents.”

He said, “I’m doing you good. I cannot allow you to be in this house, be irresponsible, and not allow you to thrive.”

What I felt like he did was push me into the deep end, and I just had to learn to swim.

It was swim or drown.

That was the most character-building thing my dad has ever done for me.

When I evaluate my adulthood and what my parents have achieved, and how they’ve raised me and my sisters, I think they’re just wise.

That’s not what’s put out in the world.

These influencers… I’m actually not influenced by them personally. I’m influenced by my parents and by people that I genuinely have relationships with, like yourself, who are real about your successes, your journeys, what you’re working towards, and what you achieve.

Because that is real life, and that’s what I encourage and push, versus, “Oh yes, look at me, my millionaire house and my car.”

Of course it’s great to achieve those things, but I’m going to be real.

The journey… it’s not easy.

“It’s not easy. And I’m so glad you said that because that’s obviously what all my content is about.

The whole purpose of *No Bullsh*t* is to talk about what’s real because I’m so sick of it.

This podcast is all about real conversations with other entrepreneurs who are doing real things and doing it the right way.

It’s not about those polished interviews where people ask, ‘What are your three top tips for success?’ and, ‘Oh my God, you’ve done this. How did you do it?’

No.

That’s not what it really is.

This conversation is what running a business is like.

It’s stressful.

We don’t have much money.

Half the time we’re working our butts off and we’re not getting paid what we should be.

That’s the whole purpose of what I’m trying to create.

I’m now trying to do more content for a YouTube channel that I’m doing separately, which is about exactly that.

It’s not all the polished stuff, filmed perfectly in my creator house or a mansion or on a beach in Ibiza.

It’s actually done realistically and trying to show you what it’s like running a business.

I think that’s so, so missed.

I’m so glad that you resonate with this—obviously why you’re here.

But I do wonder about the fate of a lot of people out there, and you obviously, like I said, you have a history of recruitment, which is why you started this whole thing. You’re helping Black people get jobs, and I just think that this narrative out there—I think already Black people feel disadvantaged, that they’re already at a disadvantage to get a job. So you must see a lot of this. But does a lot of this make it so that they feel like they’ve got to step above, right? And it’s probably a lot more of this stuff, but I would love to just ask you about, you know, I guess, people’s attitudes, like what you’ve noticed in Black Create Connect. God, that’s a hard thing to say, actually. You say it really quickly, and when you try to say it quickly it’s like “Black Create Connect”—there’s a lot of C’s in there.

And I just think, like, when you’re trying to help people get jobs, first of all—and this might seem like an obvious question, but I don’t think it is that obvious—why are Black people struggling to get jobs? What are the main reasons why they’re struggling to get jobs, and what are people’s attitudes at the moment towards the whole job market?

So I’ll start off with the why we struggle to get jobs, right? So I think that people might hate me for this, but I think that both parties have a part to play.

And I’m going to start off with our part to play. I’m not blaming us, but I’ll tell you the part that we have to play. It’s the abundance mindset, and it’s the mindset of desperation and feeling less than. I understand society has been… I mean, things have taken place in a way for us to be fed into that and for us to really feel oppressed and down.

But what I encourage—I acknowledge, yes, we do have these barriers. However, I’m not submitting to it, especially because I have seen so many of our parents come from poorer backgrounds than us and start off with so much fervor, and they pushed through. They came and they said, “No, I’m having an abundance mindset. I’m getting that. I’m doing that.”

And I think, unfortunately, there’s a lot of people that I speak with that have a limited mindset because of their experiences. I’m not blaming them for it, but I encourage healing and growing from those situations and saying, “Okay, what is it that I can do?”

So that’s number one.

Number two, there’s an element of delusion sometimes where people think that they need to be doing what someone else is doing. So a lot of people say to me, “Alicia, I want to do what you’re doing.” Where’s your strength? Where’s your value, right? So what I actually see people do is slow down on their journey because they’re trying to do what someone else is doing instead of focusing on what they can do.

And that is distracting because they’ve seen someone else get success in other areas, so they think, “Oh, it’s what they’re doing.”

Nothing to do with them.

Exactly, exactly.

So they might say, for example, “Oh, I want to be a creative director because I’ve seen this person make all this money as a creative director.”

Is that what you want to do, or is that something you’ve just seen this person do and you just think it looks good?

A lot of the time, especially with those in early careers, a lot of them don’t have direction, and they’re just trying to do what is the next best thing to do versus focusing on their value.

A lot of the other things that the community do is, again, comparison. Comparison of this person—they have this, they’re working at this company, or this person has access to this network, or this person has this mentor. “I want this as well.”

And it’s like, just focus on what’s around you and what resources you can pour into and what you can grow from.

My mindset with that is—I even told my sister this the other day because she’s the Gen Z baby and she needs a lot of counseling, right? Complaining about what you don’t have is not helpful. Complaining about what you don’t know is not helpful.

What you need to do is find out. What you need to do is plant the seeds that you have into the soil that’s around you and work with that.

My theory is, if you were to wake up one day and have all these beautiful plants in your back garden, but you didn’t plant them, what’s going to happen? They’re going to die because you didn’t plant them in the first place.

So you can’t get to that result if you don’t actually do the groundwork.

And some of that is—if you don’t have that money, it sometimes limits you in asking certain questions, in being curious enough, in researching certain things, in exploring different types of things to even understand where your value is.

It’s okay to explore. It’s okay to be in different environments and trial.

So I think that’s one thing.

And also investing. So even having this members’ club—a lot of the time our people will say, no. I’ll be honest, we don’t really invest into our self-development as much as we should.

We want a quick win. So they’re going to be quick to sign up to this Forex trading thing, quick to sign up to crypto, quick for this pyramid scheme or whatever.

But they’re not thinking long term because there’s been, I guess, generational deprivation over a long time where they feel like, “I need to quickly come out of this.”

So they’re not investing in long-term things that actually matter.

That’s a theme that I’ve seen.

Now, to bring it onto the company side, what I’ve experienced internally is because companies… Let me use an example. Let me be very practical.

So I am a CEO. I’m a white man. I’m a CEO at a company, right? I’ve had a board that has worked really well for me. I’ve made all these millions and billions, and it’s worked well for me.

Peter wants to leave, right? I’m trying to hire another Peter because Peter helped to make me this money.

If someone comes in and they don’t look and sound like Peter, or have Peter’s experience, or didn’t go to a similar Russell Group school like Peter, that’s a bit of a risk. It’s not worth the risk.

So let me just go with the safer option. Let’s potentially place them at a junior role, and if they’re worth it, then we’ll bring them up.

So companies generally feel safer bringing Black individuals into more junior roles because they don’t have enough relationships with them to even vouch for them, or know them, or give them opportunity.

And I noticed this when I was approached for a role at an agency to manage partnerships and recruitment.

I was not experienced enough. I had like three years, or maybe two years, of recruitment experience. Why am I running recruitment and partnerships at a company?

The reason for that is because…

During lockdown—I’ll give you context. During lockdown, when I did start the community, another thing that I did do was reach out to organizations to do DEI training.

The reason I did that was because the 25% salary decrease was affecting my pocket.

So I said to my founders at the company, “Can I make money elsewhere?”

They said, “Sure.”

I was doing DEI work. So I started to do DEI work for different companies.

One of the contacts at one of those companies was frequently in communication with me. They saw the work that I did. They moved to the agency.

Then she said to me, “You need to take this role.”

There were people that were really experienced interviewing, but she said, “I’m going to guide you through this.”

It was seven stages, right? And it was double the salary that I was on at that time.

So I was really not thinking I would get it, to be totally honest with you.

She guided me throughout every single step. She gave me the information. She told me how to navigate certain relationships.

She said, “This is what they need to see from you.”

Understand—that was a different level of sponsorship and mentorship.

Then I got the role. They gave me a sign-on bonus. I didn’t know what a sign-on bonus was until she said to me, “Ask for this. Get the sign-on bonus.”

She gave me every single tip. I got the best package.

And whilst I was there, she still supported me.

Shout out Theo. Shout her out. She was amazing. I’ll never forget her because she really guided me.

And that’s when I realized people just need to have the right people and network around them.

And the reason why senior people don’t make those decisions is because they haven’t had the experience, or they haven’t been close enough to cultured people to even trust them or know that they’re trustworthy of certain things.

I understand that, right? Especially with a senior role. Running your own company, you want to only hire people that are senior but you can vouch for.

Do you know what I mean?

So that’s what it is. It’s just a lack of understanding.

Can this person that hasn’t had this same experience do this role?

That’s one of the things.

Second thing is also just cultural differences and understanding and style.

So my approach, I guess even culturally, sometimes we’re much more passionate. Sometimes the way we’re talking could be misinterpreted as rude, or as too much, or “strong Black woman,” right?

It could be misinterpreted.

And sometimes that puts other people at discomfort, especially in senior roles.

There’s also a trend where we’re not sponsored enough when we are in the company.

So what usually tends to happen is that our retention rate is much lower as Black individuals in the workplace because we feel like we have to suppress ourselves. We have to be silent.

I’ve experienced it. I’ve been in a workplace where… gosh, it was awful.

And me, as confident as I am, I used to go into the workplace, go in a corner, do my work, not try to look at anyone in the eye. I was scared to be there.

Me. I used to call my parents every so often at work, at lunch breaks, and just cry on the phone.

I felt like I had to be there.

Now, what that means is that the company’s not going to get the best out of me, which means I’m not showing my best. I can’t get promoted. I can’t be shown in a positive light because I don’t feel safe.

So that’s another thing.

There needs to be mentorship as well as sponsorship.

Sadly, at that company, the HR director was a Black woman, and I felt like she should have been there for me more than she was. I’ll be real with you.

And my friends that were there were Black. I felt like they should have been there for me more than they were because they saw what I experienced, and they witnessed other people experiencing it.

But everyone was scared. Everyone wanted to keep their jobs.

And that is a problem when people notice things—even if you’re not Black—and people stay silent, and they don’t address it and push back.

That’s problematic.

One of my clients said recently, “Alyssa, I do want to hire more people from your community, but I can’t. I don’t know how I’m going to deal with accents—thick accents.”

I promise you, I’m not joking.

But to be honest…

That’s not the first time.

She was like, “Sometimes I’m scared that the clients won’t understand them, and sometimes I struggle to understand them.”

So I asked her, “If someone comes from another country and they’ve got a different accent, are they not then entitled to jobs that pay a certain salary? What are we then promoting if we say no?”

She said, “I get it, but what can we do?”

I said, “Let me just think about this for a second,” because I was also caught off guard.

Later on, I came back and spoke to my client.

I said to them, “She needs to open her ears to different environments. That’s what she needs to do.”

Because that’s not the person’s problem. That’s your problem.

We’re in a multicultural city. There are loads of different accents and people speaking.

So that shows me that you’re actually in limited spaces, and you’re only consuming limited content.

You need to open up your ears to different environments so that you can understand, if you really struggle that much.

But we can’t say, “No.”

That’s discrimination.

I’m just even thinking about the number of Black people I’ve had on this podcast. We all have different accents.

Exactly.

So I’m saying, all of us have different accents.

What are you trying to say?

It makes no sense.

My dad has an accent.

Everyone has an accent.

So are you saying that certain accents are much more acceptable to clients?

You’re making an assumption on the basis of you assuming a client is going to say, “You know what? I don’t want this accent.”

That’s another one of the things I’ve also seen, especially in the advertising space.

Companies jump to what clients want, right?

And sometimes clients have requested not to have certain people on their team.

Yeah, we’ve had this too.

You’ve had that too?

Right.

And they’ll jump to that, and they won’t hold their client accountable and push back and say, “Actually, that’s not okay, and this is why it’s not okay.”

Feel free to quote the Equality Act 2010 as well and highlight that this is discrimination.

But also, morally, you’re limiting your company’s potential when you only have certain voices and minds in the room.

I need people different to me that have different experiences and backgrounds and insights so we can expand how we do things.

I can’t be the only one.

So that’s another thing that I see as a frequent barrier.

Then, to the flip side of that, I’ve had situations where clients have said, “Where are the Black people? Where are they at? We need to hire a Black person. A Black person. A Black person.”

And then that person comes in for the client.

I know what you’re going to say because I was about to say the same thing.

Go on.

For the client, yeah.

And I promise you, that Black candidate knows they’ve been hired as a token.

Do they then get fired afterwards?

I’ve had experiences where they do.

When the client changes their mind.

This is what I was going to say.

I’ve been running an agency for 10 years, right? So I’ve done a lot of pitches.

Some of them are for brands that are Black products, so you’d like to think that they’re going to pick someone who understands their products.

If I was picking an agency for a product that’s used by Black people, I’d want an agency with Black people in it to understand.

So there have been times where, for example, myself and my creative manager were both Black.

You pitch to them.

Then we’ve lost these pitches, and we’re like, “We want to see which agency won it.”

And it’s an all-white male agency.

I’m like, “How does that make sense?”

Then I found out they’d hired a Black woman for this particular role to go in and pitch.

I’ve spoken to this person—I won’t say names because I work with them.

Basically, there was a lady, a very established creative director.

They paid her. They gave her a contract to work on this project and to be the face.

She went in, did all the pitching.

As soon as they won that business, they fired her.

So she was literally hired as an actor for that role.

Sick, right?

So I guess I just want to ask a closing thought.

As I said, you work with Black creators and Black people to help them get jobs and build a reputation, get more money from content creation, all that sort of stuff.

If you had some key takeaways that people could do right now—you’ve already mentioned quite a few things—but what could people do to help level the playing field, to help stand out? And, you know, what should Black creators and people who are looking for jobs do right now to help elevate their own reputation?

So I would say, first and foremost, think about what gaps you can fill with the value you have.

It’s okay to do things that already exist out there, right? Like a podcast, or a YouTube video, or LinkedIn content. But always think about, “What is it you can add to this? What is the truth?”

And if you don’t know what that is, figure that out.

Sometimes it takes a story and experience for you to genuinely have things to share and say as well.

So I would say, think about that value.

When it comes to job hunting and looking at opportunities, you need to build and nurture relationships, and take time with those relationships as well.

A common mistake people make when they’re pitching to companies—because I’ve seen it—is that they will just pitch their idea with no thought about how it strategically links with a company’s mission and vision.

You’re just pitching your idea. You just want to do it because that’s what you want to do.

Look at the company’s mission and their vision, what they’re doing, their plans, and what they’ve previously done, and really align it so that it’s now a priority.

Because what you’ve got to think about from a business perspective is they had no plans to spend this money. They had no plans to do this idea.

So in order for it to be something they buy into, it has to align, and it actually has to be something quite creative and innovative that’s like, “Okay, this is different.”

So really think about that.

I would also say, please, please, please tune into your discernment because if you have the wrong individuals using your name and your reputation… because I’ve experienced it, right?

I’m a kind person. I have been used. I’ll be honest.

I have experienced situations where I felt like I was pouring into someone, and actually that was a using situation.

So really clarify who that person is and understand their intentions.

And don’t be afraid to do a background check.

I even tell people, “Talk before you say yes to me.”

Even creators—I say, “Go talk about me. Go find out about me because you don’t know me.”

So just find out information. Do some digging.

What’s the consistent thing here? What’s the consistent thing I’m hearing back about this person?

Because that’s most likely to be true.

So figure that out first.

Also, I would say, don’t be afraid to go to networking spaces on your own too.

And when you go to bigger networking spaces, don’t be that person that’s running around the room.

Take your time.

You’re better off having one or two in-depth, valuable conversations that are memorable, that mean something, versus you running around trying to give out your business card and pitch to everyone.

That does not work.

How do I know?

Because I’ve done it.

I’ve done it, okay?

And that don’t get you nowhere.

The business that I’ve got in Cannes, for example, I spent pretty much the whole night with since I met them—getting to know them, talking to them, speaking to them afterwards.

And they know it’s business. It’s completely fine.

But I would say be transparent.

Understand them. Ask questions.

Don’t pitch yourself straight away.

Ask questions and find out what it is that they need and what the value is.

Sometimes the time isn’t now.

Sometimes it’s not now.

Sometimes you’re not the solution.

Sometimes Sabrina is.

Sometimes someone else in my network is.

Sometimes it’s another company.

So really don’t be trying to match yourself to every solution because you’re not going to be the solution for everything as well.

So it all kind of goes down to really tuning into your value, yourself, your strengths, what you truly love, and sowing the seeds on the soil that’s around you.

So that’s my last kind of closing words.

Oh, what a beautiful thing to end on. I love it.

Honestly, you’ve dropped so many gems today. I think there’s so many things people can just listen back and watch back and actually apply, because I think so many people absorb information—they listen to this podcast on a walk, or they’re watching a YouTube video while they’re cleaning the house—and they just think, “Oh, that was fun, that was entertaining,” and then don’t really think about it.

But actually, there’s so many action points here that people can take time with and actually do something and make a meaningful impact in their lives.

So thank you so much.

You’re so welcome. Thank you for having me. And I hope that you all also give Sabrina, wherever you are at home, a round of applause because I like to give people their flowers.

If you have been killing it, you have been consistent, you do so much, and you’re always being innovative—even the things we spoke about offline that you’re trying to do—I respect it, I rate it.

Thank you for being patient with me, and I thank God you understand, like having understanding people and entrepreneurs around you is different, because it helps.

So thank you.

Thank you so much, I appreciate it.

Thank you.

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