Hello and welcome to Sniffing Out the Bullshit, a podcast for ambitious entrepreneurs who want help wading their way through the bullshit jungle of entrepreneurship, and the tools, skills, and mindsets that are actually required for success.

I’m your host, Sabrina Chevannes, the No Bullshit Entrepreneur.

So when I was a kid, public speaking used to be this thing that leaders did. It was a really authoritative activity.

You stood up in front of hundreds, thousands, or even tens of thousands of people to speak about your specialist subject.

You’d usually have to prepare for hours to get up on stage, have that stage presence, know your lines, and just, you know, look amazing so you could showcase why you’re the leading person in your industry, because that’s who spoke at these events.

But I feel like the public speaking space has now drastically changed.

Pretty much everyone considers themselves to be a public speaker. In fact, that title has become really quite literal. If you speak in public, then you’re a public speaker.

You don’t need to be a leader, an expert, or even be good at speaking. You can land yourself a public speaking gig and look like a leader.

So what happened?

Well, the personal branding space happened.

This obsession with boosting your personal brand means that getting yourself on stage is all the rage.

That wasn’t actually meant to rhyme, but I’ll go with it. So, getting on stage is all the rage.

But how do seemingly normal people now land big speaking gigs?

If you’re listening to this thinking, “I don’t even want to do public speaking as it’s terrifying, but everyone’s telling me I need to,” then you’re in luck because you don’t actually need to worry.

You don’t actually need to do speaking gigs. This is just what is being told.

But I’m going to cover those options a bit later on so you can choose whether you want to go down this route or not. You don’t have to.

But first of all, I want to discuss the variety of different types of speaking gigs that are out there.

For example, there’s the massive conference keynote speech, which can be quite prestigious because you’re speaking in front of thousands of people, often somewhere abroad and, you know, glamorous, and you’re next to some big-name speakers.

So, you know, it’s pretty cool, I guess.

Then there’s your standard panel discussions that every event seems to have these days. They’re super popular because they’re interesting for the audience, as it’s more of a discussion rather than just being talked at. It’s definitely less pressure on the speaker, as they don’t have to prepare a big speech with all the eyes on them.

Then you have your independent events that brands throw for a variety of reasons. They often look for a speaker speaking on a specific topic, so it’s not just socials.

Lastly, I’d say that speaking on podcasts is now considered to be public speaking. So the landscape really has drastically changed.

But let me address each of these speaking gigs in turn and let you know what happens with them and how you can actually land yourself these spots.

Oh, actually, I know what else I might discuss is TEDx Talks, because after all, I am the curator of TEDx Shoreditch, and I see all the shit that goes down when it comes to TEDx Talks.

So many people like to see how they’ll grab themselves a TEDx Talk, and I may cover that too because I think it’s relevant and interesting here.

But let’s start with the big keynotes, though, as they’re the most attractive type of speaking gig that you can get.

They’re the ones that people want to do because it basically makes them look super important. It’s often a big conference, hundreds or even thousands of people attend, you have the stage to yourself, it’s all about you, you can position yourself as someone with authority, and essentially promote what you do. Dreamy.

But there are two types of people who do these talks.

And you’ve probably been thinking right now, “Isn’t there just one type? The ones who are the best in their fields?”

Nope. There are actually two.

One of them are the ones who are the best in their fields, but the other, well, they’re the type who actually pay for this privilege.

No, no, you heard me right. They don’t get paid for these roles. They actually shell out their hard-earned cash so they can get on stage and feel important.

Now, if this is news to you, then you’ve probably got so many questions in your head right now.

I guess first up is, why on earth would anyone do this?

Surely, if you’re the best at what you do, you’d expect to be the one getting paid the megabucks to deliver the talks.

Well, the thing is, these people are not the best at what they do. That’s why they have to pay for the privilege.

And they don’t like… well, they… well, they do pay a lot of money for it, but they do it to…

…make themselves look as though they’re better than they actually are.

What they do may be decent, and a lot of these people actually are good at what they do, but they haven’t had the recognition.

But some people are not actually good at what they do, and they’re just really, really trying to look like they’re the authority figure.

Think about it.

You can stand up on the same stage and have your name in the same conference brochure as legitimate experts, and call yourself an expert by association.

It makes sense.

So you use this opportunity, you post about it all over social media, you tell potential clients that you’re speaking with Mr. Big Shot so-and-so at X conference next week, et cetera, et cetera.

And it makes them look good.

So, you know, I get why people do it.

But this is how your competitor is landing a huge keynote conference when you’re always thinking, “They’re not actually that good at what they do.”

And I guess another question then is going to be, how on earth do event organizers get away with this? Because it sounds wrong.

Well, they call it sponsorship.

So you sponsor the event and get your brand in front of all your potential target customers.

You often have your logo displayed somewhere. You might get a shout-out in the mailing list. This is a classic sponsorship deal, but they throw in this public speaking slot, and that’s the most expensive sponsorship package.

So really, it’s all about that slot. That’s what they want.

The thing is, most of the target customers out there know that you paid to be up there, and they then aren’t that interested in you.

Almost every one of these conferences has these pay-to-play opportunities.

So if you’re seeing your competitor speaking at the same event as, say, Steve Bartlett, you’re thinking, “Oh my God, how have they landed that gig?”

Just think, they probably paid £10K for that privilege.

And yeah, that is the sort of level it costs.

I’ve seen these opportunities go for anything between £3K and £25K. It’s absolutely nuts.

Or people do it to look as though they have this glamorous lifestyle.

I mean, I even know people who go further. They fly themselves to different countries just to say they’ve been invited to speaking gigs over there when they actually haven’t.

They’re over there alone, desperately trying to meet some people and get something out of it.

But instead, they just post all these pictures on social media with people they’ve met, claiming they’ve been paid to be over there.

It’s really quite sad, to be honest.

But this “fake it till you make it” trend is back big time, and it is crazy.

All right, now I’m sipping my coffee because even I’m thinking about it. I’ve had a lot of people confide in me about some of this stuff, and it is shocking.

I hope you’re not thinking, “Oh, they’re confiding in her, and she’s just blabbing about it on her podcast.”

But I’m not mentioning any names.

I am letting people know what happens because there are other people who are consistently upset that they’re not landing the gigs that they want.

They’re like, “How is this person on stage with this person?”

And it’s not what you think.

Actually, I think now is a good time to talk about TEDx Talks because they are the opposite.

They’re very big on the fact that it’s never pay-to-play. It’s completely forbidden to accept any sponsorship from someone who wants a speaking opportunity.

Of course, there may be some organizers out there who do this kind of thing, but it is actually very much against TED’s guidelines.

So instead, speakers need to be independently curated based on the quality of what they do and who they are. It’s also got to be correlated with the event’s theme.

So most TEDx organizers actually spend a lot of time looking for the ideal speakers for their event—ones that are connected to the theme—and they handpick them for quality.

However, we do also accept pitches and applications from speakers because, you know, you never know what you’re going to get.

There are some amazing people out there who do have great ideas that are completely aligned with what you’re doing.

Actually, now that I think about it, I might just do a separate episode on this because there’s so much bullshit surrounding TEDx Talks and applications, and I think it actually deserves its own episode.

However, I will just say now that TEDx Talks are highly sought after and…

…anyone who claims to be able to guarantee you a spot on the TEDx stage is usually chatting utter bullshit.

Let’s face it, because once again, it’s an opportunity to charge you a lot of money.

Remember, TEDx organizers do not accept money, and they do not pay speakers, so the slot should be achieved by your own merit.

But there are middlemen, usually PR agencies, acting on behalf of speakers and charging those speakers several thousands of pounds in order to land them a TEDx slot.

But all they actually do is reach out to the organizers themselves and pitch you.

Trust me, because I get these messages in my inbox every single day, and the pitches are terrible.

I look up who they are, and they’re PR agencies, and the pitches are terrible.

It’s just like, “Oh, here’s a bio. They’d be really great for your TEDx.”

You could do that. Actually, you could do much better.

You know, you stand a much better chance reaching out yourself because all they do is send this generic stuff, and it has nothing to do with the theme.

They don’t even care about the theme.

They just write to everyone in the database, and there’s no passion or, like, you know, anything behind it.

It’s just generic. It’s like dropping your CD into people’s inboxes with no covering letter.

It’s just really, really lame.

So you might as well do it yourself.

I’m definitely going to cover that in a separate episode.

But now, I feel like podcasts are really similar.

There are so many services now called “Get You on Podcasts,” or PR agencies who are charging thousands of pounds to get you guest spots on podcasts each month, doing the exact same thing.

Because the reality is, getting on podcasts is actually really easy.

I have a request to be on a podcast every single week in my inbox, and I’m not even doing any outreach.

It’s just there because they’re looking for speakers all the time.

Think about it.

There are now over 5 million podcasts globally. Like, 5 million.

There have actually been over 71 million episodes from these podcasts.

Some podcasts are inactive, sure, but there are still 4.2 million active podcasts out there.

I mean, you’re listening to one right now.

Podcasts are so popular, and I have two.

So if you think about it, that’s crazy in itself. The chances are someone is going to think you’re interesting for their show.

Now, most people don’t have the budget to pay guests to appear on their podcast because, at the end of the day, no matter what people say, it’s bloody difficult to make money from podcasts.

So guests are expected to do podcasts without a fee.

In fact, once again, many people pay to go on podcasts because it’s great PR, depending on the show, obviously.

For example, I’m sure many people would pay to go on Diary of a CEO, for example.

Just think what that would do for your street cred.

I’d like to hope that Steven Bartlett doesn’t accept payment and instead goes for quality because his show is all about the big names, and he can get plenty of money from brand deals instead.

But some of the other smaller names—I don’t even mean really small, I just mean smaller than Steven Bartlett, which isn’t really saying much—they will probably take payment.

There are some very well-known social media influencers out there with shows, and they’ll charge you to be on their show, but they’ll also offer themselves to be on your show for a big fee too.

So, you know, they just want to leverage their social media audience.

It’s really interesting.

This is the whole follower currency thing.

So once again, if you see someone with a fairly small podcast getting these big names on their show, don’t immediately think, “Oh wow, that show’s doing really well.”

Just think they may have actually paid their guests to be on it.

Of course, some big names will happily go on podcasts for free because they’ll want to support smaller creators, and this is amazing. You’ll definitely get that.

So it’s not always a paid thing.

But the reality is that it should be super easy to land podcast gigs.

There are actually plenty of sites out there that are doing just this.

This is literally what they do.

You can find podcasts on there, choose whichever ones you want to be on, and they’re actively looking for guests, so you can just reach out to them directly.

The PR firms that charge you thousands and thousands of pounds to get you on podcasts literally just use these same sites, but they hope that you don’t know they exist in the first place.

If you’re interested, ping me a message and I’ll let you know where they are.

I’ll actually put one in the show notes so you can see. These are ones I’ve actually used in the past.

So if you want to get on more podcasts, if you want to get on a few podcasts this year, for example, if you want to up your game with podcasts, then just write to a few shows that you like and ask them.

It’s not that difficult.

I decided I wanted to be on more podcasts this year, so I put out one post on LinkedIn at the very beginning of the year, and I was bombarded.

Literally. It was nuts.

I was like, “Oh my God, this is a bit too crazy. I can’t actually do most of these because I have no time.”

Now, in general, I’ll only go on shows that are in person because the footage just looks better, and when you’re using that on socials, it just looks nicer and more professional, right?

But if a show is something I find really interesting, and I actually think that I have something to offer, I’ll go on remote ones.

I did a really interesting one about entrepreneur books, and I love reading, so it was a really interesting discussion.

Even I learned something from it.

I’m happy to do all these, and yeah, if it’s all aimed at entrepreneurs, I will do them.

At the end of the day, it’s only an hour of your time, they do all the editing for you, and you get good content to use on your own socials.

And you know, since I also run a guest podcast, I know how time-consuming it is to do because each episode for me takes a good 20 hours.

Film, prep, edit, promote—it’s way more than 20 hours.

So one hour is insane value.

Plus, as the host, it’s never about you, right? It’s always about the guest.

But when you’re the guest, it’s all about you.

So actually, you get much better value for your time.

Therefore, I think speaking on podcasts is a great form of PR and definitely underrated.

I know that when you do big keynotes, it looks really fancy, but quite often they’re not actually professionally recorded.

So you only end up getting a couple of cool photos out of it to share on social media.

And they’re, like, you know, you say it, and how often can you bring it up without looking like a braggy idiot?

But, you know, if you’re genuinely a great speaker with lots of nuggets of wisdom, then podcasts are fab because you can get enough sound bites to last you a month from just one episode.

So I love them, and I think I’m going to do some more.

It reminds me now that I’ve done a few, and I need to chase them up for their footage and start putting them on my own socials.

So it’s given me a bit of a kick in the butt to actually start promoting these guest podcasts I’ve done.

But back to traditional public speaking now, because I feel like we’ve gone off on a bit of a tangent.

Panels.

So panels are massively popular at the moment.

On one hand, it’s because they’re engaging for the audience, like I said earlier, because you’re able to listen to multiple voices.

But on the other hand, it’s just easier for both parties.

Plus, as the event organizer, you get way more pull by having four names to promote, for example, rather than just one.

However, in comparison, it should be four times more expensive to fund too.

But that is where the issues come in.

I get asked to be on a lot of panels, and they always say the same thing.

They’re like, “You won’t need to prepare anything, so it’ll be super easy.”

“You’ll probably only have to talk for about five or ten minutes because we obviously have other speakers that say stuff too.”

“And the slot’s only like half an hour.”

And you’re just like, “Wait, what?”

This is supposed to be more attractive because it’s easier for us rather than having to prepare a keynote.

I actually think it’s way less attractive.

Think about it.

It means you still have to give up the same amount of time to attend the event.

You still have to exert all that energy by showing up fully because you want to be the best you can be.

So it takes a lot of energy to show up fully for the event.

You also have to do networking.

But in return, you actually just get less stage time and less chance to promote yourself and your business.

It’s actually worse.

But they use this excuse of it being easier as a reason not to pay.

They say they don’t have event budgets and speaker budgets or whatever.

But think about it.

If it’s a big-name event, do you think they’re really going to ask all these big speakers—like I said, Steven Bartlett earlier, because we know he’s got like a £50,000 fee or whatever minimum spend.

So do you think they’re just going to have him come in for free?

No, they’re not going to.

So this brings me on to my next gripe, basically, which is how normalized it’s become not to pay speakers these days.

And this is because now you have every Tom, Dick, and Harry claiming to be a professional speaker, and they’re happy to do it for free.

They just want to get the fame and stage time.

And you know, that’s what it is.

But I think people have forgotten the definition of professional.

It literally means you should be getting paid for it, right?

And I get it.

I believe that everyone starts somewhere.

So if you’re up-and-coming and you haven’t had much stage time yet, then doing a few unpaid speaking gigs is absolutely a great way to go.

You should do it.

You should definitely build a presentation, boost your personal brand, get your name out there, get really confident on stage in front of people, and perhaps even get some great content to use.

Absolute no-brainer.

Totally makes sense, and it’s great for networking.

But I said content.

You’re probably going to need to bring your own crew because most of these places that do this sort of stuff don’t actually offer professional filming, so you won’t actually get any footage.

So, you know, as a newbie or someone building their profile as a speaker, totally do it.

However, if you’re an established speaker and you’re great at what you do, but you just want to increase and do more speaking gigs, you need to start charging for them.

While it may feel cool to do them, and people think, “Oh, you’re speaking at this gig,” you might feel important being asked, et cetera.

You need to add up the time and energy it takes to do these gigs.

Think about it.

You often dedicate a whole evening or even a whole day when you do a conference because you’re expected to stay around and network at the event too.

But what are the opportunity costs of going to that event?

Think back to the events that you’ve done.

What is your ROI on these speaking gigs?

Do you even know?

Because some people have decent results from them, and others get diddly squat.

Ignore the people who claim they get tonnes of work from every speaking gig because that’s all part of their “fake it till you make it” strategy.

Many people even doing big keynotes say they don’t get any opportunities from them at all.

So you absolutely need to get paid, otherwise you’re just draining your time and energy everywhere.

Even the events that invite you abroad seem super attractive.

Think about it.

You get all your expenses paid to go to some glamorous location and do a talk.

It feels really special, right?

It’s a cool free holiday.

But you’re essentially going on a free holiday where you can’t even relax.

It’s not putting food on the table or paying the mortgage.

You’re basically going to be exhausted from all the networking you have to do.

It’ll probably mean you need another holiday just to recover from that trip.

You need money.

You need to pay for your kids.

You need to pay for all your other expenses.

That isn’t paying your expenses.

So therefore, you really need to think carefully about these speaking gigs and how many of the free ones you can actually do.

Definitely spend some time on them.

You can definitely do a few each year if they’re going to suit your bigger picture.

But think about it in the bigger picture.

Really, I think the whole speaking industry is actually kind of twisted at the moment, with it being so normal to ask speakers to talk for free.

Sure, there are times when a value exchange makes a lot of sense.

But other times, it’s just event organizers trying to scrimp on the budget.

So if you’re thinking about building your personal brand and you’re wanting to land some more speaking gigs, then there are some key takeaways from this episode that I hope you’ve listened to.

These are the sort of questions you should be thinking about.

What sort of remuneration should you be expecting for your gig?

Are there particular events that you would work for free because that makes sense?

Is sponsorship really worth it?

I mean, it almost never is.

Do you really need a PR company to send a few emails on your behalf?

Maybe AI can even do the same job and save you thousands of pounds a month.

And is public speaking actually even necessary to build your brand?

Or are there other ways you can do it?

And this last one is actually a big question.

I’ve covered a lot in this episode, but what if public speaking is just not even that necessary?

Now, this is great news for those who are actually scared of public speaking and are looking for ways to build a personal brand without doing this.

So, you know, this is great news for you because public speaking is not the be-all and end-all.

Think about it.

How many events have you seen the likes of Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos, and Larry Page speak at?

I mean, even on YouTube, how many keynote videos have you seen of them?

Are they building their social media channels all the time with clips from their keynotes because they’re like, “Oh, look how good we are and look how we’re leaders in what we do”?

No.

But they somehow still manage to run the biggest companies in the world.

Just take a moment to think about it.

Think about the most successful people you know.

Are they traveling the world speaking at gigs?

Maybe some are, but they’re probably the type of people who love the limelight and want to big themselves up all the time anyway.

But if that’s not you, and you just want to run a decent business without getting on stage, then you don’t have to do these speaking gigs.

Yes, personal branding is really popular at the moment.

But again, you don’t necessarily have to build a personal brand or even have people know the name behind the brand.

This is just something that has become so popular since COVID.

And yes, consumers do love to find out who’s behind the brand.

But there are still plenty of successful brands out there concentrating on making products or offering fantastic services without the need for public speaking.

So just because it appears that everyone around you is doing the whole public speaking thing, it’s really not as it seems.

If you know anyone who’s honest about what they’ve invested in these speaking gigs and you know their actual ROI, then you’ll know that it’s actually quite the façade.

Just look deeper at some of the people who are often on stage but don’t necessarily run successful businesses.

How long do they actually last in the industry?

So don’t get caught up in the hype, and just concentrate on doing business the right way.

So that’s it from me this week.

Until next time, just keep sniffing out the bullshit.