I felt my absolute lowest, and I was like I felt like I couldn’t kind of go any lower.

And I was like, I need to kind of climb out of this.

And this is the sort of couple that’s going to start to help me.

Kind of just by sharing your story, there’s something about collectively doing this in front of a community of other people and going, “Look, this is me.”

That is cathartic and healing because you’re doing it publicly in front of a lot of people.

But yeah, it’s not for everyone.

You need to know that you’re ready to do it.

No Bullshit Talks is a podcast for entrepreneurs, by entrepreneurs.

There’s too much bullshit out there, especially when it comes to business.

This podcast aims to highlight what’s true and what’s not in the world of entrepreneurship, bringing you honest and raw conversations about the rollercoaster that is on entrepreneurship.

Each week, my guest will be a high performing entrepreneur sharing the ups and downs of their journey and helping you prepare for the road ahead while providing you with actionable insights and absolute gems of knowledge.

Stay tuned as I introduce this week’s guest.

Nick Raeburn is the founder of StoryScale where he helps people win more business through social selling.

He’s the number one social selling coach in the UK and helps his clients drastically increase their revenue.

He’s a TEDx speaker and an alumni of the only LinkedIn Creator Accelerator Program in the UK, and an expert in video production.

I present to you this week’s guest: Nick Raeburn.

Welcome Nick Raeburn to the No Bullsh*t Talks podcast.

How are you today?

Yes, yeah, yeah, great, feeling good.

Yeah, it’s good, good to finally meet you and finally be here.

I actually can’t believe that we’ve never met in person.

Yeah, digitally and never met in person.

That’s so bizarre.

Like it’s funny because it’s funny how I already feel like I know you and trust you.

Like all that sort of stuff and we’ve never actually met in person.

I didn’t even realize that until just now actually when you’re saying that.

That’s actually crazy.

And I guess that shows you the power of digital connections and how you can build it up, which feels nicely on what we’re going to talk about today I presume as well anyway.

So that’s amazing.

So on that note, I think it’d be great for you to explain a little bit who you are and what you do for our viewers.

Yeah, so I’m a social selling and video coach.

I’ve been doing this now for about just over four and a half years I think.

And before that my expertise was in video, and I did that for around 20 years.

So there’s a lot of things that kind of weave into that like… storytelling element.

And yeah, I’ve just always been fascinated with films and storytelling and that kind of stuff, kind of escaped into them a lot as a kid.

Nice.

It’s funny because all those are the skills that everyone’s really sought after these days.

So you starting it 20 years ago means you’ve got a massive jump start on everyone else who is trying to get into it now.

And storytelling and stuff like that is a massive buzzword now.

And people are only just realizing the power of storytelling.

But actually, this week I’ve been filming a lot of content and that’s come up in every single conversation: the power of storytelling.

And it’s made me even rethink about how I show up and tell my story because I don’t tell my story.

I’ve got a lot of stories to tell.

I think I do tell some stories.

I think I’m a natural storyteller of sorts.

But I’ve never really thought how to craft it for business purposes and actually intentionally tell stories.

It’s one of the hardest things to do because it’s so deeply personal to you.

So to be able to sort of look at it subjectively and frame it in such a way where it’s not all about you but it’s about the audience as well can be very difficult to do.

It’s weird because when you say it, it sounds like such an amateur thing.

Like, “oh I’m just telling a story.”

What you do with your kids when you go to bed and that sort of stuff.

It’s like everyone just tells stories.

But actually, like you said, it’s an insanely difficult skill if you’re doing it with a purpose and with a mission behind it.

So I’d love to delve into more about what you do because you said social selling, and I think that not a lot of people truly understand what that means.

I mean even myself included in that, because like I was saying, I create content just for the sake of creating content because I find it fun.

But I’m not selling with content.

I really should be.

And I think that, you know, I’ve heard the term social selling thrown around, misused.

And I think there’s a massive confusion between what exactly it is.

Just because you’re selling online or you happen to be selling on social media doesn’t actually mean you’re social selling, right?

And so that’s what I mean.

So what is it?

Social selling isn’t actually selling.

Okay, so there’s a big misconception there.

So you’re not actually going, “here’s my thing, buy my thing.”

It’s convincing the buyer, just like you do in the sales process, to move forward, to get them to the point where you have that sales conversation with them.

So what you’re doing through your content, and so we talked about this, but a lot of the time there’s a difference between marketing and social selling.

So marketing is kind of broadcasting to a lot of people, whereas social selling is a lot more contextual.

It’s very, very specific.

So sometimes I will go out and I’ll create a piece of content specifically for a single buyer where I’ve had a sales conversation with them, they’ve brought something up, and then I like—so an example was a couple of months ago I was in a sales process with a major vendor and they brought some stuff up.

I went off and wrote a newsletter specifically for that buyer and made sure that that buyer saw that newsletter.

How do you make sure they see it without just being like a cringe DM?

You know that part of the process again of social selling is making sure that you’re spreading yourself through their network collectively and their business network so that you’re connected with a lot of people.

So you only need one or two people from their business to interact with that content and that’s going to push that out into their feed.

Yeah and I think that that’s where I guess understanding the algorithm of different networks is important.

But again, there’s no guarantee and that’s a problem with social media is that you spend so much time creating content and you push content out there and a teeny tiny portion of your audience actually sees it.

So the thing is, you could have spent how many hours on that piece of content, it could be fantastic content, and the person you actually want to see it doesn’t ever see it.

And short of dropping it into their DMs like a cringe monster, like you know it’s really hard.

And you have to just hope that the algorithm works well.

Well, we do engineer that as social sellers—we engineer it slightly more so.

And part of what we do is we kind of if we’re targeting a large brand or a company, we’ll effectively kind of move through that company a bit like a virus.

So we sort of start it’s the perfect analogy at the lower echelons a bit and kind of move upwards towards the C-suite.

So that by the time you connect with the C-suite and more senior people, you’re connected to hundreds and hundreds of people inside that organization.

So what happens is typically, because most people in organizations are connected to people around them, their colleagues, you only need a few people.

You may have seen this before.

So in your feed, when someone that you follow interacts with someone else’s content, it pushes that content out into your feed.

Yeah.

So I only need one or two people from that company to interact with it.

And then I know.

And one way of checking that is if you look at the data on your LinkedIn, you can see which companies are viewing your content.

So if I’ve got a target account and I’m putting that content out there and that target account is regularly interacting, I’m seeing those target accounts regularly interacting with that content.

And it’s like—boom.

Start job.

Very clever.

It’s much more precision-led and much more like we I know that I’ve got a specific target account I’m going after and so we worked with Panasonic last year, I think.

I wasn’t connected to hundreds of people inside the organization.

I was connected maybe around 50–60 people.

But the senior decision-makers that I needed to be connected to, I engineered it so that they saw my content on a regular basis.

So should everyone be social selling?

No.

It’s not for everyone. I think there is a need to be distinction between like if you’re a business owner and you’re selling to other small business owners or vendors, then effectively you’re not really social selling.

Then what you’re doing?

It is marketing really, and then having sales conversations.

Can we really clarify the difference?

The difference between the two is typically, with social selling, it involves teams.

It involves armies of people producing content.

Armies for your “virus”

Rather than just individual,
most of the stuff that you see in the LinkedIn feed, and most of the stuff people are telling you about you know making sure that you define your ICP and making your profile speak to that person on your profile—blah blah blah—that’s great if you’re a small business owner talking to another small business owner.

But it’s a one-on-one sales conversation.

That very rarely happens when you’re having much larger sales conversations.

There are lots and lots of decision-makers and stakeholders involved.

So how do we engineer that to make sure all of those stakeholders and decision-makers see that content?

That’s the differencebetween.

I guess the main differentiation is project scale really.

If you’re going after a half-million-pound deal versus a £5K deal that only involves one person—that’s the difference between social selling and traditional selling.

It feels a little bit like brainwashing, like dropping subliminal messages.

It’s not brainwashing.

Think of it like you do in a sales process.

You’re digging and asking questions and trying to get to the heart of what is the customer wants.

And that’s effectively what you’re doing with social selling.

You’re asking those questions of the vendor and then producing content that answers those questions.

And you’re answering those questions in the comment section on that content as well.

So the perfect combination is: you produce a piece of content for that vendor, that vendor sees it, and then comments on it.

And you respond to that comment.

You are in a sales conversation with that person.

Yeah.

And I do like it.

I think it’s a lot more natural than just reaching out and saying, “just thinking of you” and all that nonsense.

That doesn’t work.

And they always feel like they’ve stumbled onto your content.

And they feel like it’s coincidental.

But it is certain degree it is engineered
because if you go into train large companies, they can’t rely on or there has to be a process to it.

It has to be, just like sales, there has to be a process.

Yeah.

And I guess it’s the same as any sort of marketing in a way.

Because billboards, train stations—you’re standing there, it’s timing at the end of the day.

A lot of things are about timing.

So you just happen to see something you need.

I think the main distinction is that traditional marketing are more broadcasting.

It’s like “here’s my thing, buy my thing, hears me, check me out.”

Whereas social selling is much more granular, much more contextual.

You’re having a two-way dialogue.

And a lot of it is listening.

You’re listening to what the other person is saying and then responding through your content and your comments.

And I think then timing is less important.

Because with marketing, there’s a lot of element luck involved—you have to time it right and they just happen to want that thing when you’re advertising that thing.

Whereas social selling is you’re listening for them talking about that thing and then you respond.

We had a company I trained a couple of years ago.

They had a new website built, and they were looking on that website to see what products and services or what product they were selling customers were looking at.

Then they would go off and produce blogs addressed those specific products for that vendor, and make sure that vendor saw it.

I really like that.

And I think it’s a much better use of your time—more targeted and focused.

Which I guess so would you say then it’s better for those who going off more for large enterprise clients on smaller businesses ones?

That makes sense.

So I guess I’d love to understand as well how this all ties in with personal brand.

I know that you do a lot of work on LinkedIn as a main kind of social media platform, and everyone’s talking about building your brand on LinkedIn.

And everyone thinks I’m an expert on this, and there’s so much advice and it’s so confusing and overwhelming.

So I guess I’d want to know your thoughts on personal branding, and how that connects to social selling versus marketing.

Personal branding versus marketing versus social selling—how?

So, personal branding.

Yeah, I’ve got a lot to say.

I might get quite ranty here.

Just a prep for you.

Yeah, it can’t probably get worse than me the other day when we talked about personal branding and I compared personal branding gurus to Charles Manson.

I don’t know where that came from, but I basically said that he was building a cult and they were as dedicated and as crazy as those followers.

So you’re probably not going to get that bad.

No, I don’t think I’m quite going to go there.

But I think the whole personal branding piece, there’s a lot of noise.

And I see a lot with people that build personal brands—they focus purely and solely on the CEO, or the senior people, the C-suite.

Which is great.

They have a story, and that’s great to push that brand.

But have you ever seen Jurassic Park?

Yeah, I’m wondering where you’re going with this.

Yeah.

So what’s the big scary dinosaur in Jurassic Park?

T-Rex.

T-Rex, yeah.

So the T-Rex is like a traditional B2B marketing.

It can make lots of noise, scare people on the toilet, can grab lots of attention, but it needs massive budgets.

It needs legal.

It needs sign-off in social.

It’s an evolutionary dead end.

So what’s more effective?

What’s more deadly than a T-Rex?

That one with the wings?

No, no, no.

The Velociraptors.

I put that up.

The ones that hunt in packs.

Like they spray something in their face.

No, not that was a different one but the velociraptors is a little but bigger, I think other one’s a little bit smaller.

Is that T-rex?

I don’t know what that one’s cool but so yeah the velociraptors.

So the Velociraptors they hunt in packs.

My point is, yes, you can focus on the CEO.

That’s great.

But if you’ve got an organization with 300 employees, and all 300 of those employees are producing content, you are going to obliterate your competition just purely on the sheer scale.

Any marketing budget they’ve got, you’re going to tear it to pieces because of the sheer speed and scale that these people are producing content.

That traditional marketing model cannot keep up with this.

I agree with you.

I feel like there’s one major flaw in that.

Of those 300 people, how many of them actually want to?

You’ve got to find those, so this is the big dynamic shift we’re having in larger businesses.

There are Gen Z employees coming through that know they’re creating stars.

They understand how this stuff works and are employing people that do want to build a personal brand versus more traditional you know markets and segments where people think, “I don’t feel like I should do that.”

So you’re going to get this split, and those people are going to start to pull away from that traditional model of how things work.

But then there’s a danger with this.

Because I do think it’s great.

I would love to have a team of people who care about personal branding and would get out there.

That’s fantastic for your company as well.

Definitely, for example, those leaders who scream, “I’m a great leader because I do this for X, Y, and Z for my company.” and just sort of.

But if their staff were saying those things, that’s so much more impactful.

Exactly.

It does.

But I think those employees are few and far between.

And I think if you’re only hunting for those people, is that a level of discrimination?

Because I’ve seen some companies actually like put on job descriptions, “Must have at least 10K followers.”

And I’m like, wait, what?

Yeah, it’s actually a requirement in their agreement.

Because they want to have micro-influencers.

I’m glad that companies are starting to see that.

Are you joking?

But then doesn’t that start a whole obsession about vanity metrics?

People manipulate things and become so obsessed.

More reach equals better.

We could start talking about pods and all that kind of stuff and overinflated metrics.

But yeah, it’s a big grey area.

But finding the right people—the people that want to step forward and want to do it.

And you don’t need thousands of followers.

If you’ve got an engaging employee that loves your culture, wants to talk about your culture, and loves turning up for work, and they’re allowed to do that, that’s gold dust.

How do you assess that though?

Like what I mean because I think different roles have different personalities. Right?

Those who are more into building their personal brand are generally obviously I’m assuming things but generally more on the extroverted side.

And there’s a lot of introverts who already feel disadvantaged because of that.

And those are the people that because they’re the people that should be creating content.

So it typically, in more technical fields, the nerdy people are the people that should be producing the content.

They love it.

They’re so geeky about what it is.

I’ll give you a really great example.

There’s a guy called Tony I’m completely butcher it Morano, I think it is.

He works for IBM and he’s a UX guy.

Really, really nerdy.

He’s a LinkedIn Top Voice now.

His content gets thousands and thousands of likesmon it.

But it’s really niche.

Really specific.

All he talks about is user experience and UI design.

It’s really niche, really specific and he loves what he does.

That’s great.

I mean but that’s so how do you empower those people?

Because I feel like you said if they’re the ones who should be doing it..

Yes.

They might naturally be introverted.

And I feel like a lot of people always think, “No one’s going to want to read my content.”

But I guess they have to want to do it for themselves.

Because I don’t create content because I want everyone to love it.

I create content because I want to do it.

It’s almost like a release for me.

Well, you can see my content.

It’s quite ranty.

So it is a form of release.

But it’s also because I believe people need to hear certain things and they can benefit from them.

I do it because I think it’s the right thing to do.

And I love doing it.

I’m passionate about doing it.

You said passion.

I think a lot of people do feel this, but then they’re blinded by, “No one’s going to care about what I do,” or, “I’m not going to get many followers and likes.”

And they feel disappointed by it.

So how do we encourage people not to care about that and just follow their passion?

So, as I said before, the trust component is really huge.

Trusting your people to be able to post and giving them free rein to experiment and stumble and fall a little bit.

As long as you’re not bad-mouthing the company.

And that’s the beautiful thing about this.

I think I love about this there’s a sense of honesty by doing this.

It’s like if you’ve got a toxic company culture, you’re not going to let your employees anywhere near social media.

Yeah.

But if you trust them and genuinely have a culture where you love those employees, it’s like, “There you go. Off you go. Go and do your thing.”

But yeah, to your point, finding those people and getting them to step forward.

Usually those more nerdy people are slightly more introverted.

But it’s a bit like a toddler learning to walk.

They’re going to stumble.

The first few posts are going to kind of suck.

I’m sure yours probably did.

Mine were awful.

They were terrible.

So it’s a learning process.

And I think having that kind of I think feedback loop helps.

I had it when I was producing content.

You start to grow a following, and that following starts to empower you more to get a bit braver.

So it comes with time I think.

And it comes with just doing it.

Well, what about those who just have no interest?

Because I definitely had a team of people at some point, and we really tried to encourage social media and get people on it as a brand.

Then a lot of them were extroverted they were like so excited.

They’d say, “I’ve got this idea, got this idea, got this idea.”

Nothing happened.

Then we’d say, “Okay, let’s start the morning like doing all with a coffee and social media time.”

And everyone hated it.

I wasn’t going to force them to do it because that defeats the point.

And they’re young.

They’re social media people.

But they wanted to just do TikTok dances.

That was their thing.

So how do you even get people to see that it’s worthwhile and actually want to do it?

Well, the worthwhile part of it is that there are things with social selling I haven’t even worked out yet in terms of the long-term ramifications like you know 10 years 20 years down the line.

But you know think about your brand identity.

Think about your culture.

The people that we train those people learn more about the people they’re working with based on their feeds.

Some people might be horse riders.

They might have a dog.

And they didn’t know that about their colleagues before until they started producing that content.

But you’ve got to trust them.

And there’s no point pulling people through that process if they’re going to dig their heels in and say, “No, there’s no way I’m doing this.”

Don’t force them.

But the people that are naturally curious, or maybe a little bit more extroverted maybe, genuinely succeed.

Although I think the people that succeed the most are maybe a little more introverted, really technically good at what they do, and true experts of what they do.

And they’re more afraid to. There’s that fear component of, we’re going to talk about vulnerability a bit later on, but I always call BS on people saying, “Oh, you know, don’t be vulnerable on social.”

The very act that you’re posting content on social is being vulnerable because you go, “Okay, well I’m an expert in this,” and now people might go, “Well, you know…” they’re going to call you out on it.

So there’s a fear component of like, “Well if I post this thing, I’m going to get hundreds of people potentially going, well that’s wrong and this is wrong.”

So yeah, there is an element of vulnerability by creating content in the first place because your expertise is being called into question.

Absolutely.

And I think for leaders, because it’s still a new thing, even like the whole personal brand thing, people still think it’s about the C-suite and the senior people.

And it’s like, no, you’ve got armies of guys and girls behind you who could be absolute, they could be the next B2B rockstar and you’re sat on it and you never even know it.

You haven’t given them the opportunity to create that content because it’s all about me and my story.

It’s like, step out the way and let them.

But do you not think that that is partly the personal brand managers who are orchestrating that? Is part of their thought?

Yeah, they’re gatekeeping that stuff and it’s like that’s not where the power is.

The power is in those authentic voices that work for your brand.

That’s way more powerful in terms of like, you know, “We trust you and this is our brand and this is our culture and these people are authentically talking about it.”

It’s not engineered.

They’re authentically talking about how awesome your culture and your values and your company is to work for.

But isn’t that also because it’s easier as a CEO to just put leadership stuff up there? So as a personal brand manager they’re just like, “Oh let’s do…” because it’s just leadership stories.

Let’s do rags to riches and in 2017 I was this but in 2024 look at me now.

You know, let’s give it the old sort of corporate comeback.

It’s like the company culture is toxic, people don’t get on very well, so I’m just going to put on this false veneer of, “It’s great here and I’m a really great leader.”

We ain’t buying that.

What about the rest of you guys?

Yeah, and it’s like okay, you could talk about all your leadership thing and go on there and then you go and Glassdoor and they’ve got two stars and you’re like… But people don’t check.

And that’s the thing with all this sort of social media stuff.

People are putting on these results going, “I just got this,” and photoshopping their stats and reach and all that sort of stuff and no one’s actually checking things behind it.

There’s a girl now, she’s actually been given a Top Voice badge.

I don’t know how she’s managed it, but people at LinkedIn obviously believed her bullshit too.

She would post nonstop about all these things that she’s doing on Instagram.

I’d go on her actual Instagram thing and have a look, it’s all lies.

She’s completely lying.

Then she posted one about her client and I wrote to that client because I knew who they were.

She didn’t tag them in and she’s like, “I’ve never worked with her.

I’ve never heard of this girl.”

So they just made it up.

She finds campaigns that are doing really well and just claims that she did it all.

Yeah.

And people believe it.

So sad that LinkedIn have got a voice that’s…

Think of the short-termism you’re doing for your brand.

I was speaking to someone about this the other day.

The short-termism you’re doing for your brand.

Everything should be on the long game.

Yeah, of course.

It’s like you’re burning bridges before you’ve even crossed them.

It’s really short-sighted.

But most people, I think at the moment, are short-sighted.

They’re looking for those quick wins.

They’re looking for the cheat codes. Cheat codes are a buzzword now.

People love a cheat sheet. People love a quick win.

Yeah, because it’s like false food. It’s, “Here you go, here’s the magic pill. It’s only going to cost you this amount and we’re going to do this.”

It’s bullshit.

It doesn’t exist.

There is no magic pill. It’s part of my freaking hard work.

It is.

And I think the thing is people don’t want to do that hard work.

And that’s the thing. They’re looking for any other way to do it that’s not that route.

Yeah.

And if you look at all the content that does go viral, it’s all the things that promise you happiness, promise you quick results, promise you X, Y and Z. And it’s just an easy version of the hard route.

That’s why there’s anti-hustle culture.

That’s why anti-grit, all this sort of stuff, because people just want to encourage a simple, easy life and it doesn’t really exist. Otherwise everyone would be doing it.

We’d all be sat on a beach, you and me.

Yeah, I mean I will be doing that next week.
You know.

But I want to go back to that vulnerability thing because I think that has become a huge buzzword.

And I think that when people talk about personal branding, a lot of the reason why people think it’s icky is because they assume that all these people who are doing the cringey stuff are getting up and doing some sob story.

It just reminds me of X Factor. You know, someone has cancer, someone’s doing it for a dead grandma. That’s what X Factor usually was and that’s why I stopped watching it. Hi Simon Cowell.

You know, I just feel like that’s what it is. And now it’s the same thing on LinkedIn. And I don’t think that vulnerability has to be like that. Like you just said, sharing anything about yourself personally or even saying that you’re an expert in something is vulnerable.

And I’d love to address it because in social selling, obviously what you’re doing is a little bit different, it’s a little bit more nuanced. But in general, connecting what you do, social selling versus personal branding and this level of vulnerability.

Now, your content is quite personal, so you obviously feel that there is a need to do that.

And I’d argue, same with me, my content is quite personal too and it works for us.

But neither of us are forcing it and doing it for likes or anything like that.

But I think that some people feel that they need to.

I’d love to hear your thoughts on: do you have to do any personal stories? What are the benefits of doing it? And how do people get over sharing these personal stories?

Yeah. So the best advice I can always give with that stuff, and I’ve said it to one of my clients, Amy, before, that’s your line in the sand to draw. Where that level of vulnerability goes to is your line in the sand to draw.

But I will say, the more vulnerable you are and the more you build empathy, the more you create connection. It’s a human trait. The reason me and you are sat here talking to each other is because we’ve built a deeper human connection.

I always reference it, but there’s a really good Steve Jobs quote. He’s never been quoted as saying it, but his daughter Lisa heard him say it. He said, “It’s not love that brings people together, it’s values, shared values.” So when you put content out there that goes, “These are my values, this is who I am,” and someone else sees it, your value sets overlap with their value sets. It’s like, “I see myself in you.” And that’s where that trust is built.

So yeah, it’s your line in the sand to draw. And I find, I don’t know if you’re the same, but if you go back and look at my really early content when I first started on the platform, I was filming really professionally shot videos in a dark room. It was all nicely lit. Then as I got more brave and got more of an audience and more people engaging on my content, I stepped out of that room, went into a more lighter room, more colors and stuff, and I felt like I could kind of be a bit more goofy and be myself because I am naturally kind of playful and silly.

So it gave me the confidence and courage to go, “Well you know what, I’m just going to show up as myself.”

I mean, I half expected you to show up today in a wizard outfit. I’m a bit disappointed actually.

But you know, that’s nice. We’ve never met and I feel like I know that about you. I feel like I know that you like a lot of dorky stuff, as we talk about. But actually it’s really cool.

How many times have I commented on your post the words “I am Groot” like a good five or six times?

Yeah, it’s usually a GIF response or something.

But like I said, you just get to know people a little bit more and I really like that. And I really like that.

People would say LinkedIn’s not Facebook, but one of the things I loved about Facebook ten years ago, when I last probably used it, was that I got to know people without having to spend as much time with them.

There were people who you wouldn’t get to see all the time, but you’d get to know them because you’re just absorbing their content. And now we can do it with professional people.

Yeah.

I’ve got to know you over the last couple of years and we’ve never met each other, but I feel like I know quite a lot of things about you and we can have a conversation. It’s really nice.

And I love that. I think that you don’t have to go deep, but I think that personal things are what bring you together.

Yes.

It’s something to do with those overlapping values and building that trust. You’re never going to buy something—and that’s not to say you need to share every component of who you are.

Like I said, it’s your line in the sand to draw.

But building that empathy and connection is a part of that process.

You’re never going to buy something from another human being if you don’t trust them.

Yeah.

Yes, you can build trust and authority through expertise, but I think there’s something more in it. We’re social animals. We’re social creatures and we need to understand and feel safe around other people in order to go, “Yes.”

I’ve got people in my community and people that I’m connected to who are some of my best friends. I’ve never met them in real life.

But…

Because you know them so well.

Exactly.

And I think that’s it. Like I said, you’re not going to buy from people. Everyone says people buy from people. That’s a cliché, but it is true at the same time.

And I think people think that you should just go on LinkedIn and share the client project that you’ve done, the testimonial, the award that you’ve won. But with all due respect, I don’t care about most of that stuff. I really don’t.

Because everyone somehow has awards, and a lot of these awards are fake as well. People have paid for them, so that’s another conversation. Testimonials can be faked or whatever.

But real, true facts about who you are…

And they say don’t share your kids and stuff, but I love the fact that people do things with their kids.

We had Andrew Dobbie on the podcast—don’t know if you know him, the CEO?

Yeah, I’ve had Andrew on one.

He’s great.

And I was talking about how his whole TikTok has blown up with his kids. It’s just so sweet. And I love that about him because I see him as a person who has really strong family values.

We did this test in the podcast episode where he was saying, “Okay, so here are my pillars of content.” I was like, “No, no, let me guess what they are,” because I think that shows whether your content is reflecting who you are.

And I got it right.

And I just think I’m much prefer hearing that sort of content. So I think for me that’s really important.

But I do want to talk about some of those vulnerable stories because you’ve shared one of your most difficult vulnerable moments of your life.

Yeah.

And and a lot of people would call that crazy because it’s it’s a really difficult one and a really personal one and it’s something that people would say why are you sharing this it’s not thing to do with your business but I guess it’s shaped who you the person you are today and that’s relevant.

It’s everything to my business.

And I just want to I guess or to touch on that. I know you’ve shared it before and you’re going to share it again so you’d be happy to sort of share it. I don’t I don’t necessarily need to hear in full but I’d love to give the audience some context of of that because it’s it’s a really deeply personal one and you’ve shared that and and the reason why I also want to the audience have some context is to show the levels of where we can what we can share online and still be respected.

Yeah.

I think that that’s a big fear of people is that they’re going to share something deep personal because actually they they want to because they need to they need to release that because it is holding them back not being able to address that and but they fear that if they do people be like why are they saying this online. I now have their respect for that person, they’re attention seeking.

So I’d love for you to share as much as you comfortable with.

That’s your it’s your story, it’s your brand, it’s your profile, it’s your line in the hand to to draw.

But I think it goes back to that that you know sort of social hierarchy thing is as um you know when we were cavemen it’s like if you do something like that there’s that fear component of like I’m going to be shamed, I’m going to be you know excommunicated from the group and and no one’s going to. So so it’s there kind of in your squirrel brain of like if I if I do this but if I do this thing you go into that fear component of like well if I say this thing I’m gonna you know what’s going to happen, what’s what what the repercussions.

And I remember I did a video um about it. So so you know my my story into for the um viewers that don’t know, yeah I was I was sexually abused when I was a child from the ages of 5 to 10 and I did a video about that maybe I did a post about it originally on a day um it was kind of mid lockdown and I so I’ve been drinking for quite a lot and and had like a just a really shitty day and uh and I was like I just I just I need to I need to tell the world about this because it’s going to help me heal myself um and I did that.

And then I remember doing a video a little while afterwards and I remember sat I’d recorded the video and I’ve been putting off for months. I was like I can’t like I was like I made every excuse under the sun. I was like I’m not going to post this and I’m too busy and blah blah blah and then I ended up posting it.

And I remember I distinctly remember sitting at the kitchen table on my laptop with my finger hovering over the like mouse button going what happens if I post this like and I sat there with my finger on the button for about probably about half an hour and I was like do you know what I don’t care. I was just like boom, like we’re going to I’m going to go you know go down the rabbit hole and see what happens.

So it was uh yeah that was one of the probably one of the scariest things I think I’ve ever done in my entire life.

And how did people react?

Um yeah it was uh yeah it was it was incredible um yeah lots of. I I don’t think I had one negative comment on that video. I had um I had I think I had about 130 DMs on that day from other people that were like this has happened to me um you know or I know a family member this has happened too.

Um I had one guy just a complete stranger ring me out the blue and he said yeah this has happened to me and um and it was my uncle and and I was crying on the phone, he was crying on the phone.

So that to me that is the power of content is like if you share your story and you’re um you know you’re honest about it, it has so much more power and reach than you think it does to affect other people’s lives in a positive way.

So I you know yeah you could say yeah it’s it’s affected my brand and and and blah blah blah blah but I the ripples and repercussions of sharing that story and how it impacted those other people and maybe set those other people on a path to maybe healing themselves like that’s but I can die happy I think.

Yeah.

And yeah that’s it. I just think it’s when you hear so many people reach out to you what’s also terrifying is how prevalent this is.

It shows you how often this stuff goes on in families, in businesses, in any abuse of power relationship. It’s so common but yet people are casting a blind eye on it or it screw people up so much that they are so scared to say anything.

Yeah it’s it’s the fear component and they get away with and that’s yeah that that’s how um you know abusers they rely on that fear component of you not being brave enough to kind of share your story and speak up and there’s there’s an enormous amount of of uh power in that and strength and kind of reclaiming your power.

It is transformative and like this is not the place of me to tell my being know my story how that my version of that and how that changed things and I think you know there’s a discussion for another day to talk about things like that with other people but it is that sense of power and transformative and and it can do wonders to people.

But I think you you did it so bravely on social and so vulnerably and like you said you got such an overwhelming response on that and not a single bit of negativity which is incredible for social media ’cause you could put anything on there and there’s always going to be some someone who just has something bad to say.

Yeah.

And I guess that shows you the beauty of social media too.

When when it does work.

It that to me is yeah that I still think that social is still in its infancy and there’s a lot of um I talked about this concept before and I posted a little while ago and I’m trying to build a like a real digital community with the community I’m building at the moment.

And I think there’s a distinction there’s a book I’m reading at the moment called The Second Mountain and the guy in that talks about this distinction between tribalism and community.

And he says the tribalism is and if you look at you can see in a lot of people’s content. So tribalism is a group of people with a shared hatred and community is a group of people that have shared empathy.

So tribalism is is um you know we don’t necessarily hang out together. We the only reason we hang out together is because we all hate this particular group of people and you can see it on some people’s content how polarized it is and and when someone comes in and kind of um what’s the word uh not necessarily kind of like critiques the author or you you get all the people in the comment section kind of climb over them and that that is tribalism.

That’s not you know there’s not it’s not conducive to having an adult discussion or discourse where two opposing people meet and then there’s a an actual discussion going so there’s two sets of people just shouting at each other.

That’s not—yeah, and I think that’s where the whole Charles Manson uh reference came in,
because it was like those followers were the community, they were psychotic and it’s like the…

We’re gonna you know we’re going to attack you and call you out and it’s like that’s not that’s what that’s not healthy it’s not healthy at all.

But that’s what I feel like people are creating at the moment is they’re more of these tribal followings than they are communities I don’t think it is that genuine supportiveness it’s actually
just that.

And he says in the book that it comes from a sense of collective individualism so collective individualism is it’s all about the self it’s like you know I’m super important blah blah blah um but it you know it’s how we become the dominant species of the planets because we work together in groups so that’s you know to me that’s the I think um social is still in its infancy but over time it will effectively start to become more community level and more like it is in the real world I hope that’s why I’m a
romantic.
So I’d like to see that.

But I guess you know that that’s an incredibly vulnerable story to share and I think there’s a lot of people out there going there’s no way I would tell that like and you said you you got to do what you feels comfortable to you.

But what advice would you give to someone who does want to tell their story and it’s and it’s really like really
important to them but it’s really difficult to tell.

Like what gave you the guts to do that?

I think I maybe I felt I’m absolutely lowest and I was like I felt like I couldn’t kind of go any lower and I was like I need to kind of climb out of this and this is the the sort of cup pole that’s going to start to you know help me kind of just just by sharing your story there’s something about and you know that I’m part of a men’s charity called a band of Brothers there’s something about collectively doing this in front of a community of other people and going look this is me that that is cathartic in healing because you’re doing it in front like publicly in front of a lot of people but yeah it’s not for everyone.

You need to yeah you need to really you need to know that you’re ready to do it I think and speak to a few people before you do it as well I don’t think I did I just I just I think I’m a little bit there is a little bit of crazy in me and I was just like you know what I’m just doing this and and yeah.

Sometimes it happens accidentally as well though you don’t have the time to prepare for it and talk to other people yeah it just accidentally comes out and you don’t really realize it’s happening and then the thing’s bigger than you and it just kind of takes over.

I think that’s happened to a lot of people and I think when that happens then it becomes a lot harder to process and it’s just a big overwhelming thing I think that it’s the support that you get from other people like you said those people who reach out and it’s people then probably from your party haven’t spoken to in years and years and years but probably would be like hey Nick I’m so sorry man if I’m a new chat let me know and each one of those messages just really mean something because they took the time out to just check in and make sure you’re okay.

Yeah.

Like and I think a lot of people rather just not have to talk about it because it’s awkward you know it’s a difficult subject and I think it also helps you find out who’s really there for you and I think those tough times are and so part of me puts these posts up a because I think I need it to process you see what I mean and put like I talk about some of the the difficult things had whether it’s like a form of racism or something happened a because also I think we need to bring awareness that racism does exist B like that you know how to handle it and how I’ve handled it but see because other people feel like oh actually that’s happen to them and they want to know that they’re not alone and it’s interesting to see who how their people respond because then you find out who you know who are the right people for you because the way they respond to those situation say a lot about people I think so I think that’s also really key.

Yeah there’s something in the in that Collective power of of um sharing stories which is yeah it’s it’s cathartic and it’s it’s healing for other people that you know I’ve I’ve done posts where people like they’ve gone into my DMs and said oh thank God thank God someone said it or thank God you said this thing because they’re too afraid to say it and you said it for them so it’s like you’ve empowered them to yeah.

That’s basically my whole week every week I feel like that’s I said that’s the reason why I create content in the way I do because every all the 10 Hate messages I get if there’s just one and they do they drop into my DMs and they say I’ve been feeling this for ages I’m so glad that you’re brave enough to say it because I’ve really wanted to say it and every time someone says that to me I just go it’s and I’m like I feel like I’m meant to do this and that’s the reason why yeah.

You’re on the right path and you’re supposed to be.

Exactly.

And that makes it worthwhile that’s for me yeah there’s I come was going to say now but yeah there’s something about that that sort of collective experience of sharing stories and I think if you sometimes I don’t think I Engineer like I’m really funny about the way people like really over engineer like their brand so I’ve got a lady I trained a while back and she did a talk and and one of the guys in the talk and they’re all there talking about the personal brand this guy was like oh only post things about me I want people to know about me kind of like really over engineered and she was like oh like red flag moment like so I think like there should be a combination of you know this is I’m expert but a lot of it should come from in here because how are you building any otherwise it’s just a surface level and so going back to the personal brand piece I’ve actually the the etymology for those two words brand obviously comes from Bradley Cal and it’s a permanent thing and personal comes from the Latin Persona which means Masque so it’s like there’s not really a great look for building you know any kind of trust or relationship you’re affectively wearing you’re putting on a mask.

And I don’t I genuinely don’t feel that and this is my own opinion that that it’s some of that stuff should come from you because like how can you build empathy or human connection or trust if you’re not telling authentic stories about yourself?

Yeah. If you think about all the people you trust most in the world see it’s not necessarily even the people you’ve known the longest it’s people you probably know the most intimate things about.

Yeah.

And like why do you trust these people because you just know some really personal stuff about them and how they handle it and that says a lot like whereas someone could have all the qualifications of the world and how many followers and what I I don’t trust them with anything because I don’t know them I don’t know how they handle difficulties.

It creates a it creates a bridge it creates trust and that much more quickly by being vulnerable it’s a I was listening to a podcast a little while ago and about coaching and mentoring and vulnerability is the greatest tool coaches have in terms of building trust it’s just like if I can be vulnerable with you that gives you permission to to build that bridge to go.

My question now is how does all of this tie in with video because you’re a video guy that’s what you said you’ve been doing for 20 odd years yeah and of course you know a lot of your content is video content, this is video content and you know I obviously see the beauty of video and and you know the role I think it’s going to play in the future hence my investment in it but it’s difficult as you’ve seen I’ve I’ve tried to set up this podcast.

It’s messy there’s a lot of stuff that can go wrong it’s expensive it’s time consuming it’s hard that’s what I think and I think a lot of people echo that that sentiment and to add to it a lot of people don’t like might be on camera just to make it even more complicated like you are obviously a big fan of video you obviously love being on camera you’re good at it this is what you do so therefore people like well it’s easy for you.

But do you think like what are your thoughts on video when it comes to social selling personal branding should more people be doing video and I’m guessing the answer is yes which is disappointing for a lot of people to hear this um so let’s just yeah bullshit so let’s just say it’s yes but then I want to you to help the people who are terrified of video you were terrified to get in front of camera and was just like I have no idea what to make content of like it’s one thing already writing stuff in a personal way and talking about it having a fear of doing that then putting your face out there and having people look at you and then say things about you and like you say the wrong thing you sound stupid there’s a lot of thoughts going on there right and everyone’s panicking about it so what can we do and what is video looking like?

So I think the biggest hurdle with video, a lot of people are going to get wrapped up in the whole gear thing and it’s like, you know, “I need lights, I need microphones, I need multiple cameras, I need like bits of kit,” and yeah, sure, but you don’t.

If you’ve got a smartphone, I would say the only thing you probably need to invest in early on is a decent quality microphone.

Because there’s an old adage that video is 90% audio.

Everyone says, like, if the audio is okay, then it doesn’t matter how the video is. People can listen to it.

And there’s actually a psychological reason for that. We’re much more susceptible to visually processing stuff and kind of letting it slide, but auditorily, when we hear something, yeah, it doesn’t—there’s something about it. I don’t know the actual psychological reason.

I’d rather watch something on mute with subtitles than have, like, if the audio was bad, it would annoy me, so I guess it makes sense.

Yeah. So, yeah, you don’t need tons of gear. A decent smartphone—most smartphones have got decent cameras on them now. Yeah, get yourself a decent quality microphone.

It’s more the storytelling component and the content really.

And two tips I have around that is, one is based around curiosity and the second one is…

Suspense?

I was like, “Wa—”

I was like, “No, no.”

I created a little curiosity loop there because you were—

“No, no.”

Because, yeah, now you’re curious. You want to know what the second one is.

So, so, so, I opened up a loop there.

So what happens with curiosity is you start in an adult state and then you move to a child state, and then once you understand or have been given the knowledge, you move back to an adult state again.

So it’s a child state, be like, “I want it, I want it.”

Yeah, yeah. The child state is we are naturally curious as human beings. It’s the reason why we’re the dominant species on the planet, because we’re curious about how things work.

So when you move people into that child state of curiosity, it’s like, “What’s going to happen next?”

Think of a good example, a TV show, Lost. Did you ever—

What was Lost?

Oh yeah, I remember it. The black smoke, the stupid numbers they had to put in, like the worst ending in the world.

Yeah. Every single episode put you into a new curiosity because it threw up this conundrum and it never quite got answered, and then it just threw up another one. So it was like you were constantly in that child state of, “What’s going to happen next? What’s going to happen next? What’s going to happen next?”

But then I said it’s the worst ending.

Exactly. Whereas I feel like that’s what they say about, you know, I guess TikTok content. It’s smaller bite-size. It’s like create the curiosity but answer the bloody question, otherwise—

You’ll see that a lot on short-form content. They open up a curiosity loop and then they don’t close it, and it’s the most frustrating thing ever because you have to move people back to the adult state again.

Like, it’s just like the rage is just—

Yeah, I mean I totally get it because I’m just like, “I remember the answer now. That’s so annoying.”

And then you get stuck with them for actually doing this to you rather than actually helping me.

So yeah, one is curiosity, incorporating that into your storytelling. So opening up some kind of curiosity loop where people are like, “Oh, I’m intrigued now. What’s going to happen next? What’s going to happen next?”

I’m still gagging to know what number two is.

And number two is pattern interrupts.

So disrupting or changing up your expectation of the norms of how things work.

I always give them credit. I feel I should. The Nylons really inspired me when I first started on LinkedIn. So Dan and Lloyd.

Yeah, so when I first came on the platform I was thinking around with content and then came across some of their video content. I was like, “What the hell are these guys doing?”

They’re wearing wigs and they’re doing all this crazy stuff.

And I was like, “And it’s working.”

People are really engaging with it because if you look at most of the content on LinkedIn, it’s really vanilla and beige and corporate, and they were doing something a little bit different.

They were creating a pattern interrupt by doing that.

So they’re doing themselves too.

That’s actually what they like doing. They weren’t doing it because they were trying to be different. They were just embracing what they really like, and they had fun with it, and they’re good at it.

But I think the good thing about it was that it was still good production value, so it showed that they actually could do a good job from it. So obviously that helps.

I think that you can’t be different for the sake of being different. You have to also be good at that different thing.

Yeah.

So the pattern interrupts, I’d like to just, I guess, talk about that because, like I said, don’t be different for the sake of being different.

That’s what I hear again when it comes to content. People say be controversial.

And they go, “That’s why your content does well, because you’re controversial.”

And I’m like, “I don’t. I’m not intentionally controversial.”

I just decide to say things how they are, or I decide to say things against the norm.

And it does well because I’m one of the only people saying that.

So how do we stand out?

Because like you said, there’s a lot of people doing things. Everyone’s got a podcast.

And I guess that’s also why I decided to move to doing it this way because everyone’s got Zoom podcasts or audio podcasts, and that blends in.

Whereas how many people are setting up a podcast in this way?

There’s fewer. There’s obviously a lot, but there’s fewer people doing it.

So hopefully it helps me stand out a little bit as well, to show that I’m serious about it, having real conversations and that sort of stuff.

What can people do to stand out, again without feeling uncomfortable, without spending a lot of time and money?

I think that goes back to what we were saying earlier about that concept of understanding who you are.

Because whether you realize it or not, the odds of you being born are 400 trillion to one.

Same with me, in terms of that particular sperm.

That’s what I was working out, how much sperm you guys produce, like hitting that egg.

That was the odd, like the actual statistical—if you actually crunch the numbers, the fact that me and you are sat here right now having this conversation, it’s mind-blowing.

You just cast me back a good 20 years or something. My first year in med school, I was learning this stuff and he was talking about the odds of getting pregnant.

Then I was just like, “How do all these people get knocked up so easily?”

I was just like, “If it’s this hard, what the hell?”

I’m just thinking, “Wait, what? Something doesn’t add up here.”

Working.

But my point I was trying to make is that you are unique. You are completely special. You are unique. Everyone is.

And all of your life experience up until this point, there’s no one else that can duplicate that.

That’s the power of a personal brand.

So if you lean into that, that becomes impossible to duplicate.

So that’s where your power is, is leaning into that story and understanding who you are.

And that’s how you pattern interrupt, by being yourself.

But a lot of people don’t. They either don’t know who they are or they find it very difficult to lean into who they are.

And I think there’s that disconnect around it.

But I think that’s because if you are truly you, like you show up as 100% authentically you, and then people don’t like you, that’s really hard.

It goes back to that social hierarchy thing of, “Well, if I’m myself and people don’t like me, I’m going to get cast out.”

And there’s that fear of rejection.

But if you put on a mask and you’re this persona and people don’t like you, then you could just put on different masks.

And it’s just like, yeah, you could just keep pulling on different masks until you do fit in.

But if you are 100% just you, I guess it’s like—

Exposing yourself.

Well yeah, it does.

But I guess it’s like people put on makeup, and if you go out fresh, no makeup, and people don’t like the way you look, there’s not much you can do about it.

Put on some more makeup and cover yourself.

And that’s what I guess the same sort of thing is. People don’t want to go out without any makeup because they don’t feel comfortable.

And I think putting on a bit of makeup is fine.

Make yourself the best version of you. So still be true to who you are.

But there’s a difference between then changing your whole face and putting in a different color. There’s a different level, right?

That’s not to say that the content that I put out, some of what’s the word I’m looking for it is polished, is kind of more engineered than this, and then the stuff that I just post off the cuff, there isn’t so much.

And so I guess I’d love some practical advice for those who are trying to do video.

Because I do think that video is great. I’m investing time into starting my own YouTube channel, which hopefully when this is live I would have actually done it and there’ll be some videos on there.

Maybe one follower if you follow me.

And so I do think there’s a good future in it.

But I’ve also decided I’m going all in, hence all the equipment and all that.

But let’s say we’ve got phones that could do 4K footage, and we’ve got a cheap light that can clip on the back of the phone for like a selfie light. They’re like five quid from Amazon or whatever.

We’ve got the gear.

Yeah.

Say if we do storytelling and everything, how do we—what should we be working on if we’re just using our phone and we want to just post a bit of content, nothing crazy?

But we want to just get into a habit of creating good quality content if we’re on a budget, time and money budget.

How do we commit to creating good quality video content regularly without added more stress?

Yeah, that’s the regular bit and I take it for granted.

Like, you know, it’s the 10,000-hour rule. I’ve crunched my 10,000 hours I’ve done it I can I can edit film stuff light stuff blindfolded now because I’ve done it for so long but you’ve got to put the work in so you have to go through that painful process of like your first videos it’s going to suck it is going to suck your 20th one might suck a little bit less your 50th one it’s going to get a little bit better 100 point B on so you have to go through the pain there is no other way of doing it is it is painful it it does feel uncomfortable it does feel weird but the more you do it like I was speaking to one of my buddies James the other day and um he started his own podcast he started filming his own content and there is this weird I mean I even had the same thing so I’ve produced and directed people behind the camera for a long long time but when I started on LinkedIn I started feeling myself and the first video I did I was like this is weird like I don’t like this I don’t like being on the other side the camera it was it really freaked me out and that’s someone who’s like actually yeah yeah and I understand yeah I understand the the mechanisms of it and how it works but it really intimidated it really because there is that that element of again vulnerability when you’re putting yourself it’s as close as you can get to someone being in the room with you and you you know smelling them it video is as close to that as you can get.

But that’s what I feel like I don’t mind it I know that again I’m I’m a little bit different because I’m I like it I don’t feel any problems with it but again I think that’s the thing because I’m perfectly fine having a conversation with someone yeah and so for me why does it matter having cameras on you why does it matter like speaking to a camera because it’s just like having a conversation with someone so I’m having a conversation with a camera pretending it’s an actual person that might sound a bit psychotic but you know that’s how I treat it and I think that that actually makes it easier for me thinking that it’s just a conversation as soon as you say I’m actually going to film you and I’m going to put it on a video and it’s going to be content then that feels like a perform.

Well yeah and there’s different types of content so this is more it’s more kind of informal it’s relaxed having a conversation whereas a lot of the content I film sometimes is very heavily scripted so I’ll script stuff and I will write it out verbatim and literally script it which I know sounds bizarre but it’s the reason why Hollywood films have works so well and we have script departments because when your brain can’t do two things at once so the reason I script my content is because I’m not having to focus on what I’m saying it’s all there for me so I do it like a line not or two at a time. I’m focusing on the performance and the delivery of it.

So on that note because I think that’s been a question that people lot have come up a lot like obviously you don’t want it to sound scripted and So that obviously takes time to do like how do you write a script to say if you have got a verbatim script yeah but you also want it to sound natural.

You do it in your natural language you would dictate it you would you would speak out loud how you how you would.

How are you reading it while looking at the camera?

So uh I will have it I won’t read it I like some people use um telep…

Teleprompter.

Yeah, I’m not a big fan of teleprompter because you end up again you end up going back to that process of like you’re doing this and you’re reading the thing and…

It’s seem engaging.

Yeah, and you’re not you can’t do those you can’t do two things at once I’m shit at multitasking you can’t do it our brains aren’t wired for for multitasking so if you’re trying to like read the words and you know have a resemblance of you know like theatricality like I said uh with video it’s not necessarily what you’re saying, it’s how you’re saying it and so and some of that isn’t just verbal it’s it’s body language and cues and how we so there’s a lot more to it than just what you’re saying but going back to your point I don’t read it off of a script I’ll type the script out I’ll do it with notes that’s in my natural language and then I’ll just memorize a line or two at a time.

So you do and then you cut the…

Yeah yeah so I’ll just memorize the line in my head I’ll do the line and then I’ll stop and then on to the next.

Okay, so then basically then it’s just a bit of editing off.

Just break up just a bit reams of editing.

Well that’s the thing I think that that’s what then intimidates other people because either you have to go get professional editor which is money or they have to learn this editing thing themselves.

Editing is not and again I take it for granted it’s not as difficult as you think it is all it is really is you’re removing you know the filler the ums and the ARs and just kind of tightening it up and then you’re just moving those particular clips around to get the right so it sounds what it’s it’s.

That’s it, that simple.

It’s that simple yeah it’s like people say to me is a website you just like click a few buttons on this online.

No now I’m saying this because I’ve just been recently trying to do my own stuff and it’s not that simple let’s just say that like when I try to cut it out then I’m not jerk in between the scenes and it’s the having to make it smooth and look like you’re doing it all in one tap that’s hard.

Is a really good I cut my teeth when I started in video I started as an editor and I would encourage anyone that wants to get into video learn how to edit before you learn how to shoot because when you’re shooting you’ll shoot with the edit in mind.

But what if you’re just a business what if you’re just a business?

If yeah if you’re a business own and you haven’t got time then yeah off for it and get someone else to to do it it doesn’t make sense for you I mean if you enjoy I enjoy it, I enjoy the process of it but but if you’ve yeah if you can employ someone employ someone to do the the editng kind of stuff it doesn’t make sense for you to as a business own to be there editing your video.

So yeah I feel like as a business owner it it’s hard like to be able to spend time doing that you’re already doing a million things.

But you ca so I went out for I went out with my son a little while ago couple of weekends ago and it was just me and him went off on to the Downs near where we live I took my my smartphone with me and I took a pat lunch person and I took a copy of The Hobbit so we went up there and I read in The Hobbit but as we were…

The whole thing?

No, no, no, the first chapter.

Yeah it was more interested in the about lunch.

But I got a few little shots were walking up there and like took my selfie stick and then when I got home he was playing this video games and I just sat there and it took me probably about maybe 20 minutes I just fired up cupcut on my mobile and then boom boom boom and then the video is done.

Okay so I would I’m glad you said that because I was going to suggest like what recommendation so I’ve been using cap cut for the Social Media stuff and I recently started using cap cut desktop and actually it’s really quite good I feel like it’s quite sophisticated because they’re doing it’s free and even the pro version is like 100 a year so it’s like a tiny percentage of what Adobe or any Pro stuff is so and it seems a lot it seems like you can do quite a lot so what you you just recommend people like I guess again I’m thinking of our audience who are entrepreneurs and whilst they think okay I don’t want to be video editors they might also be thinking I don’t have the budget to pay a video editor so they need a good compromise they don’t want to have to spend hours perfecting the craft but they don’t also want to spend hundreds of pounds paying a video editor so is some learning something like cap cut a good idea?

Okay yeah so I’ve I’ve cut my teeth on Avid Final Cut Pro Premier Pro uh resolve I’ve used every editing software on the planet but um uh cap cut is yes it’s really easy to use it’s free it’s simple it’s intuitive it it it’s yeah there is no harm in you in you just shooting some random stuff and then sitting down for maybe an hour or two hours just playing around the interface is a lot more intuitive than you think it is.

Well you’ve used it so.

Yeah and and I’m not a video person at all I might be creative and I know the Adobe sweet very well but I do do premier like it’s I just find it really intimidating.

Best way to learn how to edit it um and learn how to story tell is watch lots and lots lots of movies.

That’s oh I can do that.

That’s what I did as a gig I mean I do that films so that’s when that’s yeah where my love of it comes from and my understanding is like.

But do you not then think because I feel like storytellers they have the like classic structure of a story and I guess as people like say there seven Parts as people say they like three parts but I guess the the easy one I would say is the three-part one where it’s like you have the normal then the explosion and then the new normal right say like you know what of the four the big incident and after things.

They’re all very similar to Joseph Campbell’s and the hero’s journey.

Yeah, which is what you base your stuff on right and it’s like but I feel like there’s a lots of different ways of doing it but if you do you feel like if you do too much into storytelling does it not ruin movies for you?

Uh no I don’t think it does we’re again like the the curiosity thing we we’re hardwired for them and there’s this kind of in built natural incarnation to want to see that pattern emerge and you know someone go through that cycle of like you know they kind of started off and they’ve gone through this kind of transformation you look at uh I always use Greek myths Greek myths as an example but but Greek mythology was was like classic you know Heroes gen storying like the hero would would come into the normal world to find guide he go down into like the underworld and and then fight the dragon or the demon and come back changed and then go back into the in the normal world so so yeah it’s that that you know I mean things like Star Wars Harry Potter they’re all very like they are very Heroes gender.

Yeah but that’s not to say that every single thing follows the hero structure it doesn’t and again you know you can disrupt that but having them yeah having a structure where you’ve bought the viewer in they think they understand something you’re showing them something new and then there’s a payoff so you’re create you’re opening up that curiosity loop of like you know this is what you know about the world but there’s a little bit more that you don’t know and I’m going to show you what that is and as long as you you know there is a payoff it’s not just like I’m going to show you something and there’s nothing there.

Well that’s that’s it but how do we do that as a business owner like in each of our videos do we do we really need to do a big old story?

No, you don’t need to do a big old story in every video the way I structure my content and it’s a bit um it’s a bit like the sort of classic um marketing funnel but I do what’s called hero heart and head content so hero content is your big kind of tempo like check me out I’ve just got married I’ve just rebranded we just want a massive new client like this big massive things happened in my life or my business um that’s not going to happen every day and then your heart content is the more human stuff so it’s like you know I like lasagna I get mountain biking here’s my dog like it’s you’re building a bridge in human connection and then the head stuff is the more technical stuff it’s like I’m an expert in X and I’m going to teach you about that particular thing and then you’re so you’re attracting attention you building empathy and human connection and then you’re going I’m an expert in this.

Like I like it I think it’s a much more usually way of doing it rather than like I’m an expert in this and like who’s up who aren’t you there’s no connection there so we don’t listen and I think that if you build a brand and people like you and know you then when you go to sell something to them or tell them you’re good at something they’ll just automatically like you know kind of want to be.

Yeah the trust is built so.

Yeah I love that I it’s been so insightful I don’t know what um I’d love to let ask this I love to ask people like predictions and…

So your expertise obviously come with video but like as you’re selling personal branding. What do you what are your predictions for the space and for the next like 12 months?

I think we’re going to see hopefully you’re going to see a lot more employees kind of stepping up to the play and and yeah and uh I think I said this before we started but Ryan Hopkins is a really great example he’s like the the poster boy of what happens when you work for a company and you build your personal brand you get you get head hunted and the company goes yeah we want you because you’re flipping awesome.

So how got shout out on this podcast yeah I’m a big I’m a big Ryan Fanboy but um you can you know think about the I don’t understand like the long like the short termism like your company is going to pay you on your salary and on the company dime to produce content and produce a brand that is going to going to you know stand the test like it’s it’s a career path for you and it goes way beyond like imagine you know your company pays you and then suddenly you blow up and you’ve got 200,000 followers and people love you and you talk about a specific thing oh I’m might launch a product and now that product is making you you know 50k a week oh I can quit my job now.

Yeah and your company’s paying you to do this.

Yeah yeah it makes every it is a complete and utter no-brainer.

And it’s crazy because actually the people who should be scared of doing it are the companies not the way around because the companies are like should be thinking they’re going to get so big.

And I do I honestly do think that since covid we’ve seen I in terms of predictions and this might sound a bit crazy but I think the brands are evolving and I think the brands of the future will be communities and I think those communities will employ not full-time employees they will employ you know you think about like work from home and hybrid working and everything else they will employ essentially kind of freelancers that want to work for that brand because that Brand’s community and values overlap with theirs that they feel like they want to work there and I’ve come up this concept a little while ago that I call the economy of you which is if you take who you are as a person and combine it with what your expertise is you create this intersection of products and services which are going back to the personal brand thing you know the trillion to you know 400 trillion to one thing that are uniquely you.

It’s why I built a community of you know sort of D and D themed like it’s really geeky and nerdy but it’s really Niche and really specific and the people that love it love it but there’s no one else out there doing it.

Yeah and that’s amazing and so I think like we would love to like drop the link to your community in the chat because I think people who who would love that who love all that sort of stuff who want to be part something like that will get it and I think that when you know what you stand for you automatically filter out a lot of people it’s what I’m created with NOBS right I’m literally calling the community NOBS so people are going to be like wait what I’m like yeah come join us be one of the NOBS and it’s like we’re just a bunch of NOBS you know and people are like what is this and those who think it’s like wrong are just not right for the community some people love it they’re just like I’m a bit of a NOBS.

Yeah exactly.

So that’s what I’m doing I feel like you know everything I’ve been doing is no bullshit and it makes sense NOBS equals no bullshit and it so it makes sense it’s not a force thing I’m not trying to be different to be different and people get it I think that’s what it is and then you find the people who like you for what you are and it just naturally creates itself so I love it I’m excited and I hope that it does turn out like that and yeah so thank you so much for today Nick it’s going to make yeah.