It is important that founders know that there are risks out there, and what was more shocking to me is I thought there can’t be that many out there.

But in a closed WhatsApp group of founders, I mentioned it and three or four other people stepped forward and said they’d had, not with the same people, but they’d had something similar.

And so that suggests that the investment landscape, stroke fraudulent landscape, is getting more complex. It’s getting more professional, dare I say, for want of better words.

So you need to be when people tell founders to go and check where the funds have come from, I don’t care if you are too nervous. Take whatever you need to do and go check where those funds are coming from.

You need to be in control of that relationship as much as they’re in control.

No Bullshit Talks is a podcast for entrepreneurs, by entrepreneurs.

There’s too much bullshit out there, especially when it comes to business.

This podcast aims to highlight what’s true and what’s not in the world of entrepreneurship, bringing you honest and raw conversations about the roller coaster that is entrepreneurship.

Each week, my guest will be a high-performing entrepreneur, sharing the ups and downs of their journey and helping you prepare for the road ahead, while providing you with actionable insights and absolute gems of knowledge.

Stay tuned as I introduce this week’s guest.

Welcome Sara to No Bullshit Talks.

Thank you, and thanks for having me.

I really love everything that you’re about.

Oh well, that’s a nice way to start. I’m just going to clip that and put that on the front of the podcast.

No, I love that. I think it’s nice when you feel like that because we connected and it took a while for us to meet, and then you just get on and you know that they’re the right sort of people for you.

You find who your people are. I feel like that.

Absolutely, and I think it’s so important that you just get to the crux of the matter, the crux of you know doing business honorably, ethically, and no bullshit.

Exactly.

I feel like that, and I feel like it’s so obvious with my branding what I’m about and how I do business.

Some people hate it, and that’s okay. That’s not you.

Some people love it, and so I’m trying to attract other people who do love it and come vibe with me and just have a much more open, honest, and transparent conversation.

And yeah, there you go. That’s what this is about.

Absolutely.

I’d love for you to introduce yourself to the audience, for those who don’t know you, and say a bit about what we do.

Yeah. My name is Sara. I am an entrepreneur. I like innovation, and I also talk quite frequently, a lot, as some would say.

I am a serial founder, three companies in, and now working with an exited founder to look at her portfolio and the exciting stuff that she’s doing.

Those businesses have all been quite different, from service-orientated to product and very complex business models.

But they’ve all added something, and they’ve all challenged me in different ways, which is really exciting.

Oh, I love this.

So first of all, three-time founder, three different businesses. Can we hear a little bit about each one and what happened there?

So I started my entrepreneurial, should we say, mindset and thought processes probably fairly young, but not in a traditional format. I wasn’t out there selling sweets at 13 or something.

I actually had a really bad issue with bullying at 13, which knocked me out of school, and that built resilience in me. So I was like, I’ve got to do something, and I want to be the master of my own destiny, so to speak. And that’s it.

My first business started out as an event management company, and then I quickly realized that there is a process to that. Once you know the process, you can apply that to an event of five or 5,000. Arguably, the process only modifies slightly, so it lost my interest very quickly.

Oh, you need to tell me that process because I’m in the middle of running a lot of events, so I could really do with that process.

So I morphed that—

Pivoted in new way?

Oh yes, pivoted. I pivoted into more around brand cultural insight, and I moved the agency out to Sub-Saharan Africa. So I was based out of Nairobi, working across Sub-Saharan Africa and the Gulf, B2B and B2C, and just really embracing a different culture.

It was fabulous. I really loved it.

That’s insane. You’re like, “Okay, so this event industry is too easy, I’m just going to switch continents and do something completely different out there.”

Pretty much, yes.

Crazy.

Yes. It sounds very sort of gung-ho, but I guess I did get married very early, but we didn’t have children and we didn’t have anything tying us down.

One of my big pieces of advice to people out there is to embrace these opportunities if you have nothing tying you down. Embrace culture because culture is going to open your eyes in ways that nothing else can.

No course, no university program. Go stick yourself somewhere completely different and you’ll learn so much.

Yeah.

It was phenomenal.

I then, through a situation, had to come back to the UK. I didn’t want to. I came back kicking and screaming.

The second business was called The Brand Tailor, and actually, looking back on it, it was more of a consultancy-driven business, predominantly me, and I would just bring people in as and when.

That worked at the time. It was the end of 2008, so it was the recession, a different recession, and brand and marketing wasn’t at the forefront of everybody’s mind because they were trying to cost-cut.

So it was just a really evolutionary model for me to go and stick myself in and adapt to client needs, and it worked.

Then, in 2011, my dad died, and during this rather difficult situation and difficult time, I found myself in a hospital with him. He had cancer, and anyone who’s experienced a family member with cancer knows there’s a lot of time spent in hospitals.

There was a vending machine with all the rubbish in it and a poster next to it saying diabetes and obesity kill.

So my branding brain kicked in as I was running up and down the wards and getting you know just passing time, and I thought, “This is ridiculous.”

We’re getting people into hospitals through ill health, diabetes, cardiovascular disease, and we welcome them with a Mars bar and a Coke.

Not good.

No, not good at all.

Actually, I had to go to A&E recently, and it hasn’t changed. I still couldn’t even get water in the vending machine.

So we could have made a great deal of progress.

Anyway, that led me to my third company, which was started in 2013, Healthy Nibbles.

It started as a really simple concept: put healthy food in vending machines.

Now, the business model around that, getting into procurement and all of those sorts of things, was incredibly challenging, way more than I anticipated.

So we had to go into different markets and different routes in.

By the time I left that business last year, we were actually comprised of four different elements.

So we had automated retail snap boxes, we had a food service concierge, which was essentially an elevated wholesale operation, and we had a data and insights platform.

So from branding to something that was very complex, with different business models for each section and different consumer groups for each section, it became very challenging.

So that’s kind of incredible. Those three companies are all different.

But I want to talk about the last company because that was the one that—I don’t want to say broke you, I guess, because I mean…

That’s the one that broke you let’s say that then. And you know, kind of put you on a different path. But it was also arguably the most successful one, which is again what’s interesting, because I feel like entrepreneurs out there are fighting so hard to, A) get investment, B) get this big success story, but it’s almost never what it appears to be, and it always comes with added stress.

So I would love for you to share as much as you’re allowed to and comfortable sharing about what happened with the last company.

So I can come on to the business model later and how it was very complicated and things like that, and the different ways we approached it.

But ultimately, going for our Series A funding round, even though we were working with a top-tier legal agents legal company, we managed to find fraudulent investors.

So shareholders agreement signed, everything apart from the share certificate signed. No money came.

And fortunately, we actually found that they’d done that to about 30 other companies around the world, and those companies are in various stages. Some have gone under in a similar way, some are struggling to make ends meet.

But it’s had a really damaging effect, and they were going and specifically targeting Series A founders. So it was very premeditated. It wasn’t a one-off, and it was essentially organized crime.

So what is their aim? Like they’re not giving away any money. And how does a scam work?

So for this, based on the intelligence agencies that we’ve spoken to, they are getting the startups or the scale-ups all with exclusivity in place raising their funds, and it is expected that those funds will be raised and not passed on to the founders.

So in that, if you took 10 founders all raising 3 million, that’s 30 million. But instead of that 30 million coming from their LPs to them to us, it’s stopping at them and being split with that group of individuals.

Oh my God.

So it’s worth their time, their effort in nurturing those relationships, because we went through all of those questions. They’ve been on the phone to me, they’ve spoken to me frequently, they’ve engaged with my investors.

I’ve got some really, really good investors. At the time, some very, very good investors. So they’ve done all of that, they’ve passed all the due diligence, I’ve got their passports, I’ve got all of those things. This is not novice investment.

This was… I knew what I was doing, and I had where I didn’t know I had people that did.

And so if you have their passports and everything, would they forge it? Like how did it…?

We don’t know that.

That is still going on under investigation.

Oh my gosh. I feel like this has got to be a Netflix drama.

Netflix, if you’re watching, come sign this up, because I would watch this.

Yeah exactly. And please, exactly. So please play a nice hefty fee, we’ll all watch it and give their money back, because I mean it is… and actually families need to know this.

Oh my God, because so many people out there looking for money and looking for investment.

And wow…

I’ve been there. And you get desperate. I’ve been there, I’ve chosen the wrong investors in the past early stage where I’ve fallen out with those investors and they’ve been problematic shareholders then, and that’s a seed stage.

I have had good investors, investors that connect me to people, I’ve had one who’s an absolute dream who got me a personal coach for the entire duration I was working with me, it was amazing because she helped me articulate what I was trying to do, she helped me advance my skill set and she was just integral to how I grew as a founder.

So I’ve had good, bad, and they were definitely the ugly.

And it is important that founders know that there are risks out there.

And what was more shocking to me is I thought there can’t be that many out there, but in a closed WhatsApp group of founders I mentioned it and three or four other people stepped forward and said they’d had—not with the same people—but they’d had something similar.

And so that suggests that the investment landscape, stroke fraudulent landscape, is getting more complex, it’s getting more professional, dare I say, for want of a better word.

So you need to be… when people tell founders to go and check where the funds have come from, I don’t care if you are too nervous, take whatever you need to do and go check where those funds are coming from.

You need to be in control of that relationship as much as they’re in control.

And I know VCs sometimes play that power trip, but actually you’re in a partnership. It’s akin to getting married for seven years. You need to make sure it’s going to work and you need to trust them.

And they’re never going to have 100% of your best interests at heart, because ultimately they’re in the business of making money.

But a good VC or a good family office will make sure that you scale with you and they support you, because ultimately your success is their success.

So there’s a lot to be said for being more vigilant.

And I think more so as well with women—I think we can be too trusting sometimes. Sometimes our guts kick in and we’re like yes, but sometimes we can be too trusting and I think we need to actually look beyond that and get support around us.

I’m also just terrified for every company out there.

Like imagine working your butt off, achieving your dream, and then this is what happens.

And like you said, it’s getting probably even more sophisticated now—they’ve got AI.

I think that’s it.

With AI you can have phone calls with people, you can do video calls, you think someone’s on the other end of the line, you don’t know.

There’s all these things being faked. You could be on a whole panel with Dragon’s Den and believe it’s them, and have no idea.

They can send forged papers and will be like that.

This is actually crazy.

And I’m just… what other advice, if you could offer any to companies out there who are going through whether it’s Series A or whatever funding round and they’re going through funding, what other checks can they do? What other due diligence is there?

I don’t know if we could have done any more than we did. We had a top-tier legal firm and I’m talking tens of thousands of pounds of billing legal fees. They couldn’t.

We had passports, we had proof of addresses, bank statements, we had contracts—not necessarily with their LPs but we had contracts with some of their assets.

We had 200 WhatsApp messages in total over the period of time.

Letters to suppliers promising that if we put in an exceptionally large order they would guarantee it.

You name it.

So your suppliers are getting screwed over as well?

Yes, because they had reacted on it.

But we didn’t.

Oh my God.

Because Healthy Nibbles was built on our relationship with suppliers. And yes towards the end we were late paying, but that’s because we put the company, we closed the company.

But for the rest of that 10-year tenure we grew with our suppliers. And so many of our suppliers started with us as our sole customer and ended up listed in major wholesalers.

We were never going to put anybody else at risk.

They told us to hire.

So when you go in and you’ve got investment and you’re excited and you’re going to hire X, Y, Z—we had that plan. We actually had people in place and we were just waiting for contracts.

And they said just go ahead, we’ll cover it.

Now my nervousness to do that, partially dare I say it, harkening back to grandparents: you’ve no cash until you’ve got cash in your hand.

I mean you know that’s it.

Going back don’t go into credit. Cash in hand. That’s the way you’ve got to operate. You know they are old school.

But actually that stood us in good stead for not having an army of staff that to grow the business that was actually never going to grow because they were never actually going to put the money in.

I think what you can do— I think obviously if you’re going for big VCs like Oxford Street funds, True Ventures, these big large VCs— they kind of they’ve got reputation, that’s great.

But if you’re going for something without a huge track record, and bearing in mind I did PitchBook tracking and PitchBook referencing as well—on PitchBook you can see investments, every fund has made, and you can get contacts to the actual companies.

They were on PitchBook with investments that didn’t actually go through. So it’s not to be trusted. Don’t take everything at face value.

So the big thing that the thread shall we say that unraveled the whole experience is after a number of delays of —where’s the funding, where’s the money—it hadn’t money hasn’t hit my bank account yet.

I then reached out to one of the companies that was actually in PitchBook as having received 30 million from them.

And I rang the well I actually I LinkedIn’d the founder, said we’re going to be in the same portfolio, had to think of an excuse to reach out can we talk sort of things.

Within half an hour I had them on the phone.

And I actually was at home and I said to my husband: this is either really bad or really really good, one way because nobody from a complete stranger suddenly finds time for the CEO and the chairman to be with you in 3o minutes.

No, no exactly unless either they’re looking at you thinking you’re the most amazing person in the world which they might have been but like oh it’s like we need to help this person right now which is great they did that though because they could have also just ignored it and be like well this is you know their issue I can’t deal with the stress anymore cuz some people might have done it might have been so but thanks to that person and thanks to you doing that like this you’ve saved a lot of people.

And I think for me why I didn’t reach out to them first was that lack of self-confidence actually is we’re
raising 3 million day free 30, don’t want to upset the you know the Series B or whatever.

And you think oh should I should I go speak to them?

Actually just bite the bullet and do everything, because you can’t afford not to be because it cost our business.

My husband was employed in the same company. We went from salaried to zero salary.

You know everything you know any founder will know the sacrifices you make anyway you know delayed holidays and all of that sort of stuff.

And for my daughter… moms travelling up and down the country.

Like you always make a lot of sacrifices to do what you do.

And to have it suddenly swept on you I mean putting it in perspective as a business we just passed the 1 million we would you to get um be 10 million in revenue which would have been this year so we’re not small.

Yeah.

So I would say just do every answer check and don’t leave it too late cuz obviously funding rounds are taking so long now anyway that’s been a massive change anyway and a shift over two or three years they’re taking longer and longer so plan cash is king you’ll hear it when you first launch a company.

It’s no different it’s true it’s absolutely true and that’s what yeah.

Would you also say that and this is so hard if you’re like an ambitious founder would you also say that taking your time is actually a good thing here because I feel like you’re saying they saying go ahead hire these people or like you know putting this bulk order with a supplier had you have done that and you would have with with that 3 million investment you would have hired some a players to you’d have hired some people on big salaries a lot of them and you’d have been in further debt and screwing either screwing over those people who employees or who need their hard eared cash too and the suppliers in in the mix.

You’ have been in a lot worse situation with a l more people hurt and I know that I probably would have been in that because I’m a massive like go-getter right and I’m like excited I’m like right they said go I believe them let’s do it let’s do this this this and this and let’s get going and I feel like a lot of other people would do that.

Would you say actually like you said wait till that cash is in the bank and everything’s through and just slow it right down.

100%.

And I think coming back to everything that you stand for let’s cut the crap about what’s going on in the business world and what’s going on as a startup stop the hustle yes the hustle needs to exist the drive the grit the determination but it’s not hustle is that that’s actually grit perseverance and determination that’s what you need you don’t need the hustle because if you’ve got a good business starting it you know slowing it down for three months is not going to turn away that best investor slowing it down for 12 months isn’t if you’ve got a narrative to back it up and this comes at a sort of I would say a reflective time where I’ve thought you know what you know if you want to work with a really really good investor it is a bit like a marriage somebody will wait for you if that’s the case and yes they get a lot of deals through the door but actually a good deal they weren’t let up and if you’ve got a strong narrative behind it they’re not going to move and I think it’s up to you as a Founder to protect those around you you are a leader so act like it and I remember going through the Goldman Sachs course and one of the guys said say how many in here think think of yourself as a leader and hardly anyone did.

Really?

So in a room full of high growth.

Yeah.

Startups all of the minimum of 250k turnover hardly any of them thought of themselves as an actual strong leader that can go on and lead a team.

You need five members of staff in your team as well for that and yeah cuz I as I said I almost did it right and and it wasn’t the right time and so I looked it was like 250k turnover and five members of staff in your team or something so at that stage you’re running a decent business but you’ve got five people in your team so by definition you should be a leader I guess the question is are you manager/ leer and the fact that they’ve had the the boldness to apply for a cause by Goldman Sachs says they consider themselves to be a certain pedigree but yet but.

I think we’re missing I think we’ve got entrepreneurship run I really do because I don’t think we look at the fundamentals of business you to be a leader you need to you need to look after the people that are around you you need to be worthy of being followed it’s not just good enough to be some Silicon Valley face dare I say it or whatever we equivalent that we’ve got over here but it’s not good enough to just be that face of I’ve got a startup you need to be able to follow through with your actions with governance with everything that you’re doing to show that you’ve got their back but equally you know I know a lot of a lot of entrepreneurships and not don’t have kids around cuz that is usually a blocker but actually when you’ve had a child you can see that you know you can see a similarity between discipline you know okay my daughter doesn’t like being disciplined but she knows it comes from a position of love and likewise if you’ve got a team and you’re leading a team if they’ve done something wrong to be able to correct them but they know that it’s coming from a position of trust of safety of supporting their health and I’m not on about the Mambi pambi mental health element I’m on about that you’re doing it from a position of looking after that person helping eye on out differences then that’s going to be respected and we need to actually get to the grips of that before we go gungho and you know jump on the ride of a a startup and then go oh crap now what do we do when we’ve got 100 people around us and how do we lead them and how do we look after them.

I think that’s it though I think people do just want to jump on that roundabout because it’s like I said and I say roundabout I think because you were saying I wonder what the equivalent is here and I thought silicon round about how like shoreditch like you know old street is the kind of our equivalent but it is also like round about this whole roller coaster of entrepreneurship that we kind of go through and I think that people want to ride those highs of the roller coaster and you know they haven’t prepared for what happens in the Lowe’s and I think that’s the problem they they don’t actually know how to handle it no one’s prepared no one realizes all these people people and like you said when you’re excited like come join us on this journey but then it’s like well how do I lead and if you haven’t done the boring fundamentals then it’s like well you know we don’t know what your values are you don’t know where you’re going and I think that’s it I think I see this all the time and even what I do and I help coach other entrepreneurs and and mental people and I’ve go okay so show me your business plan like we haven’t made one and I would say most people I speak who haven’t made a business plan I know that it’s kind of boring and it seems old school and it’s like it’s not very modern day entrepreneurship Tech Vibes is it but how do you know like what to do or how do you know what success looks like how do you know what your goals are like how what where what you measuring against who you like how do you know all this stuff it doesn’t have to be in a old school templated business plan but you need to know the stuff that goes in a business plan it’s there for reason and so for me I think people are so excited to just get stuck into the fun bits of running a business and they forget all the boring stuff and think it’s irrelevant but actually it’s so important.

100% and we’ve glamour we’ve over glamorized it to such an extent I think people are forgetting the fundamentals that actually and that causes more hurt on the line you can over hire so then you’ve got your layoffs you know you can have the wrong supplier relationship so you’re ditching them but actually one thing we did do with health and nibles is we took the company through Bop and um won numerous awards for sustain sustainability and impact but actually what was highlighted in that approach is not the awards but actually how are you impacting your entire ecosystem so not just your suppliers but your supplier suppliers what about your local community so for us we paid real living wage which was about whatever the difference is 20% higher than the minimum wage in our local area so want of the higher employer you know employee groups.

I think it’s about looking at the impact you can have everything about it rather than just sitting down and saying I want to develop the next app that does X it’s well why what for and what good are you going to do that’s going to come out of that experience and it doesn’t need to be an ESG good.

No.

It can be wealth creation but it shouldn’t be wealth creation just for the founders it should be how do you bring that into can you bring community groups out of poverty can you offer entrepreneur uh sorry um apprenticeships to underprivileged you know what can you do to leave some good behind the trail of highs and lows that you’re going to go through.

Yeah and I think that if you are doing something for a higher purpose it actually makes it so much easier to do business I feel like because the highs and lows are tough like you know that that lucky journey is not easy and I feel like there are some people who are meant to be entrepreneurs and some who aren’t I do think I am meant for entrepreneurship and I can handle it but it’s still not fun like even doing it like 15 years later I’m still like okay i’ prefer a lot more highs and a lot fewer lows please but you know like you can’t always control it and I think that like the fact that I know that I’m in it for a higher purpose I’m trying to create a healthy environment like we’re also pay London of living way and you know that’s something we we felt was really important.

And you know having people to enjoy their environment now our team’s fully flexible they work whatever they want whatever hours they want they’ve never been micromanaged it’s all about outcomes and it’s all about listening to them and the same as what I’m doing with NOBS right the the the club that I’m building I’m consistently asking them what they want what they need and I and that’s the biggest pet peeve I had and it’s the reason I started the club because it for other members clubs I’ve seen it has been about making money for the founders it has all been about how can I drive membership up how can I get them to join and make as much money for me but I don’t care if they get any value out of it and I okay so I haven’t got anything out of this membership oh that’s your fault you just you just put more effort into it and they have no care and it’s the same in business it’s like an employee will come to them that I’m actually really unhappy here or like I’m not able to do my work because you know I feel really not valued well it’s your fault maybe work harder.

It’s the same thing imagine doing that to employees so for me it’s that sort of thing and having a higher purpose makes it all worthwhile because even if you’re not making the money that you feel that you could be one day if you’re helping impact someone else in a positive way or you’re helping Drive change for the bigger picture then you know you’re working towards something amazing and I feel like I like to believe have to believe that if you are doing that it’s inevitable that you will make money eventually and good things will come to those who are doing the right thing.

So I think that for me I found that a lot easier to deal with like having that higher purpose and I really do think that but those who who go into business having some sort of higher purpose are just much happier and more fulfilled.

I think they should I think it should be a prerequisite it should it should be.

You should you should have to be able to contribute to society.

That’s a that’s a good rule like I feel like it should be a good rule like I feel like look how when people are deciding when countries decide whether you’re allowed in their country they want to see if you can contribute to the economy and society right so if you’re going to start up another business then why should there be another business that just sucks energy and and stuff from other people that you have to may contribute positively.

I like that because governance I say let’s take that I love it that’s brilliant.

But okay so I feel like that’s a that’s you’ve had a lot of experience there and I guess that could have put your business for life and it has made you shift a little bit but what you do now you’re still very much working with Founders and you’re still very much about entrepreneurship so let’s talk about what you do now and how is different we’ll say.

Very very different I and I knew that it would have to be it would have to be something special because all I’ve ever done is work for myself and I’m now working alongside an exited founder and she is phenomenal she is bold she is confident never mention the word impostor syndrome to her because she she does think she need to get off your ass and get on with it.

I like her already.

She she is not afraid to try things new and I think that is why we connect because I think there is just a really complimentary way of working so my role now with her is to look at her investments the startups that she wants to do she’s exited so she’s been in many of the positions that we would hope to be in the future and she’s now going through chapter 2 and I’m the chapter 2 assistant I guess so really just looking at how how that plays out in terms of what investments what acquisitions and the various different businesses that she would like to start and how they fit together or don’t as a case may be quite often.

And just working with her alongside this this sort of evolution of her chapter 2 but it’s actually becoming my chapter two as well which is really interesting.

Like born again kind of feeling.

Strange very strange.

I can’t imagine it cuz obviously I’ve worked for myself as well for god knows how long.

If you’d have asked me six months ago well no I’ve got to say that CU I’ve been working with.

Six months?

Okay if you’d have asked me eight months ago if I would ever work for somebody else it would have been a no.

No.

When I was with healthy nibbles cuz obviously I’ve done businesses since I was 19 yeah so I don’t know anything else other than to run a business whether it’s as an independent but I felt that I wanted to be challenged in a different way and I think that’s another reason that it works is because I’m learning and every single day is different.

There’s no routine to it there’s a lot of Education I’m learning about sectors that I had no idea about that’s come from her world and and I’m also learning about new sectors where she’s had a business idea and she goes oh what about this and she’ll literally that is a spark of her business idea she’ll send me a message have we thought about this and some of them float some of them don’t but it’s interesting it’s really interesting and I’m only six months in so and I’m also studying just completed actually VC and investment strategies.

Oh wow.

So really getting into that I am hoping to get onto a masters which I find out in a week.

Good luck.

So that’s quite exciting and I also do quite a lot of my own content as well so I’ve built up a community in in the six seven months actually when I had an I needed a channel to put all my health and nibles content like this is what I think what do I do what do I do with all this content what do I think about having businesses with impact.

So I started doing content around that and that’s another channel, another output for or flow through for my wanderings mind’s wanderings.

I think it’s needed I think all of us need to be content creators and we all are content creators in some sort of way and I think hanging in on that to see what’s the best way to do it is is is beneficial for everyone I mean like I didn’t like being called a content creator but I’m very much a content creator and I was like even this sort of thing like I love doing this podcast because I realized I was meeting interesting people all the time and having incredible conversations and I was like well the world needs to hear this conversations they can learn from it too and that’s all it is and I definitely want to talk about that in a minute but I would love to hear more about your role at the moment because you’re looking at all these companies to acquire and various different things about business and I want to know I guess what is it that you’re looking for like what are the cuz I feel like that’s something people want to know right as a business owner you want to be like well how do I stand that what makes me attractive what what are you looking for when you deciding who to buy and and you know what or what are the red flags that that you look for cuz I feel like this is a get insight.

Yeah so I would say we’re not as established as a family office she’s not at that stage yet and whether that’s even a sense of her direction so it’s we I would say we’re not as formal as that is concerned so it’s very much relationship and gut and a lot of those things but once you get through that don’t underestimate the level of due diligence and I think that is something that I do see with people that present to us.

And also I’ve seen it in the beyond beyond this role is if you are not an over preparer you probably won’t get your deal on as quickly and as effectively so one thing that I did I didn’t have to raise for the first two companies obviously with health and nibles had multiple raisers and I’m seeing it now with how I view a Founder if you’ve done all your basic homework so a really good deal room all of your contracts are in in position you know your governance you’ve thought about what you’re doing you you know how you’re going to spend the money you know what you want to achieve out of something then that goes a million miles to actually giving those investor conversations confidence to continue to pursue.

And interestingly doing this VCs course you know if you’re speaking to an associate of a fund they’re going to speak to hundreds and then they have got to go pitch to their partner so give them something exciting for goodness sake you know don’t don’t expect them to do all the hard work so one thing that I’ve done previously and one thing that again I see some flaws coming up is yeah write a one paragraph intro of your company write a one pager do something for think about an individual they are audio they’re visual are they like writing so provide something for everybody so that they can get a really good understanding of your business in a way that suits them rather than you putting that on them by giving them a 40 page pitch deck when you’ve been told to keep it in 10 pages or whatever.

But I also think deal rooms are really crucial really really crucial and even if you are not going into so obviously when we were going into the series a we actually paid for a service and you can get a really really good service but even if you’re sort of the seed stage and proceed you can still create a deal room in Google.

Yeah you don’t have to go spend a fortune.

Yeah.

It’s not the best but it’s workable and somebody would appreciate that and I think it’s that art of responding so if we ask a question if you’re going to take a week two weeks to get back to me and this is very relevant to anyone raising money from family offices I think family offices and this is what a study of about three of them so by no means exclusive you know extensive but I think they’re quite emotive and certainly you know if you don’t capture their attention at the point that you’re talking to them if you come back to them three weeks later with something that you’ve prepped since your last conversation they’ve probably moved up.

Yeah.

So I think that’s that’s.

Yeah there’s so much that goes into it I just thinking about all the people who of in our club and our network who are looking for funding at the moment and a lot of them we recommend seed legal too because they’re so comprehensive with everything and they have kind of everything all under one kind of roof and I think they’re really great for people who like said do spend 10,000s dollars like or pounds of you know on legal fees they can make your cap tables they can put the contracts in place and I think their team’s really good so I think that’s a good cost effective solution.

I think just having a team who’s got your back and can give you that security because it’s so daunting and it’s it’s a lot of money and if you don’t understand contract law and even if you do like he said you had a legal team he still like missed a few things you you can just lose millions and millions and and just like everything you’ve ever works for just goes down the drain with like one little clause and it’s terrifying.

Yeah, I think you do need to but I also think again I feel it comes back to the role of entrepreneur yes you need your experts around you absolutely but you also need to take ownership of that so what you don’t know about basic contracts what you don’t know about basic term sheets what you don’t know about finances I hate Financial modeling with a passion and every time I’ve got to fin do any Financial modeling I have to sit down with a coffee I have to prep myself I procrastinate for hours cuz I hate it but you need to know your numbers and there’s no excuse for you standing in front of any investor and not knowing your numbers off by heart.

Yeah and I think like if you’ve ever seen Dragon’s Den or Shark Tank that’s that’s a massive pet pee for them like if you don’t know your numbers then you’re not prepared like how how on Earth like you said earlier investors want to help you but in the end of the day they’re investing for selfish reasons they want to make money so if you don’t know how much money they’re going to make they’re not going to have confidence in you but if they’re saying right in five years time what am I going to make and how and where’s the money coming from you’re like boom boom boom boom boom they’re like okay I can I can I can I can have a quite conversation with you because you’ve actually taken this seriously but if you’re like oh doing quite well and it’s this and it’s this like and you’ve seen some of the shocking ones on Dragon’s Den and I I really remember one guy and they like what are you going to do with the money and he was like I’m going to get an office in The Shard and they were like sorry what they were like why exactly they’re like oh it cost like 10,000 pounds a month and they’re like sorry and why is that good because it just looks good and I just think it needs to look good and everyone was like is this guy for real is he trolling but there are some people out there who think that they would do that and it’s just ridiculous and obviously these people aren’t going to get funding but and I’m guessing the people who are watching this and or listening to this and podcast are not going to do that because they’re listening to things like this trying to educate themselves.

And I’d like to hope that they’re taking their business a little bit more seriously.

So but yeah I think that it’s so important and you know I guess I’d love to ask you if you had to give advice for those who are seeking funding right now and need to give like your top three tips them what would they be right now?

They’re going to be so boring I’m sorry and I’m sorry to say this but they are they’re going to be so so boring it’s going to be governance know everything that you need to know for governance if you’re stuck good to the IOD’s website okay because yeah it goes through all the legal requirements of you as a director of a company and I think too many startups forget that that they are entering into a legal obligation set of obligations.

I think know your numbers because because there’s literally zero excuse and be prepared and take your time take your time and remember that they are as if you’re choosing a partner for life.

I think or a partner for seven years or I say seven eight years.

But I feel like it’s age old advice that is timeless advice.

Right.

Exactly and I just think that with tech and everything at the moment everyone’s so eager to find a new Innovative way of doing things but actually the old school way is just as good and it just shows you that look at those businesses they’re still here today doing those sort of things and if it is boring then go get a legal adviser and go get a financial adviser and let them do the due diligence and you can just sit back and take your time and and let them do it but like you shouldn’t skip on that just because it’s not the glamorous parts of it.

I think need to know your numbers even if you’re so even in the early days I worked with somebody to help me do a financial model and I also tried I’ve got a solution for um young companies VC’s hater for me it was the perfect introduction to financial modeling because you put all your data in it spits out an Excel spreadsheet doesn’t spit it out with formulas hence why VC’s hate it because they can’t wiggle around with it wiggle around with the data.

But it does get you into that mindset and that flow of how you’ve got to think about it but there’s even working with a consultant it’s still your responsibility and I think that that is really really crucial and I think also bringing everybody on board you know when I don’t know how many people have had this conversation but I seem to get asked it a lot I don’t know people planning okay what happens if you get hit by a boss that whole sort of business continuity key man insurance all of that sort of stuff but actually it’s so crucial is actually.

What happens if you are struck down ill what happens if something happens.

A pandemic?

A pandemic. A death in the it doesn’t matter what the what the the thing is it’s what happens if something happens and you’re taking out of the business can your business survive because if not it’s not a company basically.

Yeah.

It’s just you and just deal with that and I think knowing the knowing how funds look at it is puts a difference.

So as I say I’m doing this course on bench capital and and investment strategies not because I particularly love financial modeling or want to ever force that on me again but because it gives me an understanding of how VCS are thinking from having seeing all of this education coming at it from the other side speaking to a VC every single week with you know being coached through this set of courses but it just shows what they’re having to deal with and how you then need to pitch your business into that which I think is really key.

So I feel like you know you’ve we’ve talked a lot about business and and all that stuff but you were mentioning earlier…

About content and about how I guess, so you’ve started doing a lot of contents you’ve got your own newsletter you’ve been using that as an outlet, whether it’s I guess to vent but also to educate.

I think a lot of people at the moment are looking at content, whether they’re making content themselves and they want to build on it, or they’re thinking about it.

How has your content journey been going?

Probably not as well because it should do if you think about it from a brand perspective, certainly with my background in brand.

It probably undermines that.

I think initially with Healthy Nibbles, I had really, really strong content and we had a purpose.

So it was to change the behaviors of workplace wellness businesses of impact, and that was it.

And when I didn’t need to do that anymore, I still felt that writing bug and that need to sort of communicate.

But also I felt that for whatever point my career was going to evolve and whatever journey that was going to open up into, I still needed to be able to share.

The amount of times that people would still ask me for my advice or ask me questions that I thought, you know, I can fashion something that talks through my journey at the points where I’m able and willing to talk about it.

Yeah, because for the first probably five or six months after the business, the last thing I wanted to do was talk about a failed investment round.

Women get enough stick as it is, and we get less than 2% funding from VCs.

We all know the statistics.

I am fed up of incubators crawling left, right, and center over it.

We just need to get cash flowing.

Yeah.

And I didn’t want to get dragged into that sort of storytelling.

But at the same time, I felt that what happens when you fail?

Because to me, it did feel like a failure.

I’ve had a million people say, “Well, it wasn’t a failure. It wasn’t your fault.”

But it still, in my mind, was a failure.

Yeah.

So what happens when you fail?

And I thought, gosh, we don’t actually talk about that as entrepreneurs because we put this golden tint over everything.

The Silicon Valley sparkles, it’s a bit like fairy dust.

But we don’t celebrate it in the same way over here as well.

So culturally, actually, whereas we do liken ourselves to the other side of the pond in terms of the startup ecosystem, we don’t react in the same way when a business closes.

It’s like you’ve done something wrong.

What have you done?

Never going to go near you again.

So I wanted to share elements of that.

I’m still passionate about the impact of health and well-being and how we’re increasing our health and well-being because we’re becoming more knowledgeable.

But actually that’s opening up to how long we’re in the workplace for.

It’s opening up to how employers get the best out of people.

And I’m also, I haven’t called it this, but exactly what you’re saying, N0BS, around the impact side.

I’m absolutely fed up of the rubbish that is out there of, “We’re an impact-driven business,” but actually behind the scenes we’re doing something and we’re trading with somebody who’s actually damaging something in the process.

So I created something called Well Purposed, only because I wanted a name for it.

And it’s really purpose-driven and the whole health and well-being side of it.

I launched a newsletter at the start of the year just as an outlet.

So I just do twice a month.

It’s up to about two and a half thousand subscribers.

So really, that’s not bad to say that I’ve not marketed it and I’m not selling a product.

I mean, that’s another thing, I still haven’t commercialized it.

I don’t know whether I’ll ever commercialize it.

I’m just being an open book about my journey because I hope that in some way that will resonate with other people.

Yeah.

And I do that about health and well-being because I think sometimes we go in there like, “You need to be doing this, this, this, this, and this.”

But actually, if you thought about the person that’s starting here, because if you haven’t, it doesn’t matter what your journey is going to be.

You’ve got to start where people are ready to start.

And then I got into the swing of posting five days a week.

I have grown a lot in terms of followers, definitely.

I then had an operation a few months ago, so got out of the swing, and now I’m actually just going back into it and I’m finding my flow.

But I haven’t got the, should we say, the content sense of direction and brand other than I just want to be an open book about my journey and help others.

But I think that’s what people like and that’s what my content is, isn’t it?

And my content usually does quite well in terms of engagement because I’m just being real and I’m just talking about the things that most other people aren’t talking about.

I think when you scroll through your feed and you see the same stuff over and over again, the chiseled wins and bragging about how much money they’re making, or the same regurgitated quotes or whatever it is, and then you see one of yours and it’s someone being real, someone being raw and honest, then it’s like, “Oh, I might stop and actually read this.”

It’s actually different.

And I think that’s why it resonates with a lot of people.

But, you know, your numbers are great.

I know that we’re being really honest and you’re saying two and a half thousand.

Other people are going, “Oh, I might gain 10,000 a day,” or something stupid like that.

But where are you mainly posting your content for your newsletter?

And what advice do you have to other people to work at?

Well, at the moment, I am only doing LinkedIn.

Yeah.

And I am just in the process of doing a sort of couple-page website that I will include the newsletter from LinkedIn across into the blog content.

And it’s really simple.

Obviously, I’ve got a full-time role.

Yeah.

So I’m not in this to create a full-time content business in that sense.

I’m there to basically make it easy to a certain degree because it takes time to manage.

So don’t underestimate that.

Whatever you do, if you’re going to go down the content route, make sure you can continue it.

Yeah.

And I think LinkedIn is actually a great place to start a newsletter because even though it hasn’t got the great tools as an external newsletter, in terms of building an audience quickly, it’s very easy because all your connections immediately get told that you started a newsletter.

And if people like some of your content, they’ll subscribe.

It comes straight to their inbox and they get alerts.

So I think it’s been really great in terms of the newsletter.

It has.

So it has for me.

As I say, there’s no commercial purpose of it, but it’s just a way of communicating.

And I definitely get reasonable engagement.

I feel like I was probably one of the old school as well.

A lot of my LinkedIn, I do have a lot of followers now, but I used to get to know every single one of my connections.

I didn’t just randomly go out and accept everybody.

And also I purge a lot of the connections.

So if you’re being, in the same way as some of the social media platforms can be very toxic, if you’re making me feel bad, you’re gone.

Yeah.

I don’t have time for it.

I don’t have time for people to be telling me I’m underperforming, I’m not doing enough, I could do better, I can be a better parent, business person, whatever.

If you are not going to have some form of positivity in my life, then see you.

Yeah.

I love that and that’s a great attitude to have.

I feel like I’ve definitely been taking more of that stance recently and it’s been so much better for me.

I think you just get the right sort of people around you, which has been amazing.

I think it can change as well.

It can change over time.

So after I lost the business, I wasn’t my most vulnerable in terms of, should we say, emotional state.

Yeah.

So my Instagram went from following 4,500 accounts to following 150.

Nice.

And if you made me feel bad about anything, it’s like, out.

I don’t mind being challenged and educated, but if it’s all about body image, money, and everything else, then I don’t have any time for it.

Because actually, going back to probably the roots of Healthy Nibbles, it started because I thought I don’t want another family to go through somebody dying from a lifestyle-related cancer because of the crap that they’ve put in their body.

And we all do it.

Even the best of us who say we eat well put crap in our body at some point.

And I wanted to try and prevent somebody from going through that.

And it’s in the same way that I feel I need to be strong for my daughter because she’s social media age, poor thing.

But also it shows you when you lose somebody close, how much life genuinely matters.

Yeah.

And that was part of what triggered Healthy Nibbles as well, was having that life in Kenya where I saw a massive juxtaposition between poverty and wealth.

And you think, my goodness, we’ve actually got to count our blessings.

We’ve got to really look at what we’re doing and build that up.

Build that positivity, build that strength, that resilience, not just be blown away by money and beauty.

Yeah.

I love it.

I think it’s great.

Very idealistic.

It is, but that’s nice.

And I like that.

I like that a lot.

And I feel like that’s a good note to end on, actually.

I think it’s a really nice note.

I think you’ve been so amazing today, sharing so many feelings.

It can’t have been easy talking about what you went through, but I’m so glad to see how happy you are now.

It shows you that actually sometimes we have in our heads that we can never do something again.

Like you said, never work for anyone.

And I feel like that.

But if you just embrace things and actually go for it, sometimes you’ll be surprised and it can lead to wonderful things.

The power of having an open mind.

Yeah.

I would say, ending on one thing that I have found the most impactful is realizing that you’re on a journey and that business as an individual entity is not the journey.

Your journey is your life, and you realize where that takes you.

And I think that has challenged me a lot in terms of what journey am I on.

Being the best that I can be at that moment in time with those around me, that’s what kind of fuels me.

And that’s after, I was going to say, give yourself a break because that is after a bit of reflection.

Yeah.

So, and I’m going to do that.

I’m about to go on holiday and about to have a break.

So I’m going to do that and then have a bit of self-reflection while lying on a beach in Mersa.

Sounds beautiful.

Thank you so much for coming on today.

It’s been amazing.

Thank you for having me.

Thanks.

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